Lucifer: The Great Messiah from Jezter's blog

First of, one would have to believe in Lucifer, and on a side note, even the existence of Jesus is being questioned by some scholars. For argument's sake, lets say I did. Jesus didn't challenge the church, you could say he challenged the Jewish notion of a messiah and the Roman rule of those times, even that statement is "pushing" it since he was more peaceful than adversarial. As for the "sacrifice" of Lucifer's rank, well Jesus "sacrificed" his life for all of humankind.
Apart from this blog being utter nonsense, and with little research put into it. The concept of Lucifer vs Jesus "messiah" idea seems misplaced since there never was a living, breathing, Lucifer walking around on this planet spreading any kind of teaching, ideas, etc...There is, however, more tangible proof of a Jesus having done so.
In response to the last segment of your blog, absolutely non of them are the "ultimate messiah".

Lucifer challenged the highest authority.

Jesus challenged the authority of society, the church. -J

Same thing. God is a metaphysical representation of Society, its authority, etc.

Lucifer liberated mankind from mental and arguably spiritual slavery.

Jesus delivered us into the hands of the tyrant. -J

Incorrect. Most Christians say Jesus freed them from bondage, through his sacrifice.

From the beginning, Lucifer gave the gift of freedom to mankind.

Jesus sought to rob us of free will. -J

How did Lucifer give humans free will? Under this idiocy you have suggested I could say this :


God is the true Messiah of Mankind. He gave us choice, free will, and a chance for redemption.

Your whole premise is illogical. Not only does it show you have no idea what you're talking about, but you are painting Mythological bad guys as Good Guys and Mythological Good Guys as Bad Guys. Each Mythological character has their specific associations for a reason.

The fact that you don't see why Lucifer is a very, very Bad guy is telling.

This is all figurative, of course. But to the Christian, Jesus and Lucifer and/or Satan is a very real person. Jesus, within the Bible narrative, was in fact adversarial to the established priesthood hierarchy. Its doesn't matter if he was militant or passive aggressive about it. And when looking at their individual sacrifices, in the end, the fictitious Lucifer still had the greater sacrifice because he had no reward. Unlike Christ, who returned to life in three days and ascended to Heaven to reign.

You may find its to be utter nonsense, but when appealing to the fictitious thinking of the Christian, I think it's a perspective to ponder.

@FemaleSatan If you remember the Garden of Eden narrative, God created the Tree of Knowledge, and commanded Adam and Eve to never eat from it. Sure enough, into the narrative they do, and began to judge for themselves what is right and wrong. So what does that tell you? God was restricting man access to their free will. It wasn't until the Serpent came along, commonly being used as a reprrsentation of the Devil, and influenced them to indulge into rebellion. And thus, Satan/Lucifer/the Devil granted freedom to mankind. This is primarily based on the narratives.

It all sounds like a good fairy tale FS..You are just telling him a story right?

Keeping in your context, Lucifer didn't sacrifice himself, he rebelled against god hence his "downfall". It wasn't because he loved mankind. Whereas Jesus put is life for the sake of mankind. Once again, this is how it is looked upon by Christianity. Keep in mind that Lucifer was an angel and that Jesus was a man of flesh and dies a mortal death and only then does he "sit by the side of god".

As for the statement of Satan/Lucifer granting freedon to mankind, that's more of an ancient Sumerian context of Enki/Enlil. Nothing to do with Christianity.

Do all sacrifices require the love of mankind? Certainly he must have realized the odds of opposing a god, afterall. So the stakes were very high for him, but he persisted. And so you can say he became a martyr for his personal cause in overthrowing God.

No-one mentioned anything about "sacrifices require the love of mankind", but when you sacrifice something, it's for a cause. Lucifer didn't sacrifice, he rebelled.
Do you know the definition of a martyr?
There is absolutely no martyrdom for Lucifer since he never died, he was an angel and was simply "cast down".

I realize the origins of the Garden of Eden narrative. But that's not the point. A majority of Christians don't realize this.

You're leaping here.
According to that narrative a Serpent convinced them to eat, not Lucifer. Lucifer is mentioned only once in the Bible (as a reference to a star most likely).

So... Fail. You can leap to the conclusion that the Garden of Eden story paints the Devil as a Good Guy but that's bullshit. The whole point of that story is that God gave us Freewill. Even the will to defy Him.

Making him the Ultimate Messiah in your silly premise.

Venom, little pieces from the way I was taught as a kid. My Dad mixes Satanism with Christianity. He moves it all to a Jesus opposed society for its Evils therefore Christians should do the same.

Then lets go back to sacrifice. He knew the odds were against him when he called into.question the authority of God. With this in mind, he sacrificed his rank and his home of eternal bliss in Heaven because of the convictions he had of his cause to overthrow God.

@FS You fail to remember that this is all a game of smoke and mirrors. This is taking the narratives which are perceived in the minds of the typical Christian, and turned and flipped to give a new perspective from the other side of the fence. I know that the Bible never makes a connection between the Serpent and Lucifer. However, the typical Christian has made that connection for themselves. Afterall, anything that stands in opposition of God automatically becomes Satanic.

He's not sacrificing anything, especially for humanity.

He's choosing himself over any cause, any authority, etc. It's a selfish move, not done for our own good.

If Lucifer wants to war with God and take his position. Meaning he wants to rule over us. Make all of us submit to him.

Meanwhile, premise wise, God offers Free Will.

And if you are going to argue with a well versed Christian, you will get a similar argument. God gave humanity Free Will. :)

That's something that never made sense to me. If god 'offers' free will, then where did Satans choice to turn originate? The premise, as I see it, is choice is organic.

Unless God created Lucifer (to become Satan) and gave him free will too, or maybe Lucifer as close-to equal had free will in him already, or maybe god and Lucifer are one and the same and were confused through history... or maybe it's best to stick to reading Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm's stories ;)

Or maybe it's best to not argue the story line and fan-fiction of a semi-incoherent 2000 year old book.

Regardless of intentions, Lucifer made the greater sacrifice strictly by this premise: Lucifer never regained his title. Never regained his Heavenly home. Jesus sacrificed his life, yet regained it and ascends to his rightful place into Heaven. That doesn't sound much of a sacrifice to me.

@FS Yet we're talking about the same God that "offers" free will, yet punishes us for using

@Wicked Lol

And? God doesn't punish, he offers redemption from our base nature.

You want to keep this set of ideas, fine. Your base premise has holes I could drive a Mack truck through.

It's more like offering servitude or punishment.

Just thought I would add this in here. You keep mentioning Lucifer with "titles" and "ranks"...Heaven isn't the military, fair enough that some were given functions or responsibilities, but it's not like Lucifer got his medals taken away. So what "title" did Lucifer supposedly "sacrifice"? God's favourite angel? Give me a break...
As I said in my first post, this is utter nonsense and the contexts do not match per your agruments or statements. You seem to confuse definitions and mismatch stories.

Yeah but that's just it. You view as servitude, someone operating under that paradigm does not. You want to convince them Lucifer is the Good Guy, you need a better argument.

Btw, this was just an idea that popped into my head and I wanted to see how far I could defend it. And knowing this place it was bound to get criticized. In actuality, this was like defending the morality of the Sith over the Jedi. Thank you for playing :-D

What a way to kill two hours.

I've never seen the Lucifer story in the bible, maybe someone can direct me to it. Even in the tea-time story version of this, Lucifer isn't painted as a protagonist in any way. Tea-time Lucifer is a lot cooler of a character than god/jeewiz, but a good guy? I don't see it.

@Jinko, if you read my earlier posts, I mentioned about ancient Sumerian beliefs. Enki had this "good guy" image which has later been compared to the Christian Lucifer, while Enlil has been portrayed as YHWH, Jehovah, etc...

How many Lucifers are in question here? And how old do they have to be before they become illegitimate?

I'm not going into details here, if you want to know more, you can research into it, unless someone else wants to tell you more. Thing is, it's not a matter of many Lucifers or them dying out. It's a matter that one deity/being was portrayed as one and the same in accordance to their beliefs or what they want to believe.
Eg: Enki=Lucifer=Shaitan or Enlil=Jehova=Allah

Actually, the fallen angel Lucifer story we all know and love comes from our good friend John Milton. In the Bible, there was a mention of a fall of Lucifer, but that was a reference to the king of Babylon. Just sayin'

All in all who cares. It is all fairytales. ( oh shit that rhymes )

Let me break it down home boys!

Lucifer had a great fall
Jesus Christ got nailed to the wall
Both are fairytales
One fell from heaven one got nine inch nails!
( Cant touch this )

Hammer time !

I just mean that age seems to equal legitimacy in most cases, and certainly in religion/mythology conversations. Does Cell from Dragonball Z count as a Lucifer figure, or too soon?