The indoctrination of children | Forum

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AK Jan 31

The indoctrination of children is, straight-up, awesome.

Why? Because children are stupid, and 7 times out of 10 their parents aren't much brighter, either.

What do you expect? let them develop naturally? these idiots will be wiping their bare asses on the shower curtains if at all, painting the walls with crayons, and eating paste and glue well into their 30s.

"oh I want my child to think for itself"

Ok, well, you have to indoctrinate it to language in order to do that, nimrod. It's going to have to learn how to maneuver some concepts it didn't invent, unless you plan on sending the hapless turd down a river in a hand basket or something.

Tell me exactly how indoctrination is a bad thing. Can anyone do this? Simple question. Or is it just one of those automatically bad things that are because it sounds as if it is so?

The Forum post is edited by AK Jan 31

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Zach Black Feb 1

Lets face it. 99% of children are indoctrinated into one thing or the other. Be it religion, class, racial attitudes ect. As the saying goes ' Satanists are born not made ' ( LaVey ) .Those that have the ability to develop critical thinking skills will break away from the herd. Those that do not, as AK mentioned, would still be tools and fools regardless if they were indoctrinated or not. Therefor maybe do society a favor and assume everyone born is a derp anyways. Then through stratification the critical thinkers will rise outta the derp pile like so many of us had to do. Besides, not only does it prove that child is something special to have been stamped a derp and still shrug it off, it also gives that child a perspective and character that only that type of struggling for identity and rebellion can give.

Derp Below

The Forum post is edited by Zach Black Feb 1

AK Feb 1

That is a solid angle. Actually one I hadn't considered: that indoctrination is inevitable - even necessary - but to expand upon that, as you've mentioned, there's a certain type that sees it for what it is and resists that which is simply not useful. Critical thinkers in the most literal sense of the word.

In other-words, yeah! Everyone is going to be brainwashed. The attempt will be made. No use in protesting that. It's up to the individual to stand up and say "yeah, I hear you, but I'm not listening. This just does not compute." That attitude isn't, I don't think, something that can be taught. It's just part of the fabric of who they are. Something in the wiring. Born not made.

To those ends, what is there to protest about concerning indoctrination? Teach socialism in college, for all I care. Teach creationism in schools. They're both crap ideas, and it won't matter how many essays students have to write or books to read concerning it, if they're smart enough - have that spark - it won't matter. They'll reject it outright even if it means an F. Immune to memetic influence. How better to immunize a person from anything than to expose them to it?

The Forum post is edited by AK Feb 1

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Zach Black Feb 1

Topic was moved from Philosophy/Politics.

Anna Feb 1

I think the crux of the matter is how much freedom you allow for your children. Whether you encourage their curiosity or try to squash it or even punish it. I don't want to argue about semantics but generally people tend to associate indoctrination with brute force. It's natural and quite obvious that the parents pass their system of values to their kids but what really matters is their attitude to their children's desire to explore the world. Do not read this or that. Don't watch it. Don't listen to that. It's evil. Don't go there etc all those do shall nots can hinder the child. Sure, the forbidden fruit tastes the best but a really oppressive environment can seriously fuck up the kid's brain in contrast to the more permissive one.

The Forum post is edited by Anna Feb 1

AK Feb 1

"I don't want to argue about semantics but generally people tend to associate indoctrination with brute force."

We don't have to argue in order to clarify terminology. Indoctrination has to do with authority. Do what your parents tell you. Listen to your teacher. The idea of obedience comes to play in this quadrant. Brute force being but one of many means by which to exert authority. It's learning via an altogether different vector than thinking critically. It is possible to be indoctrinated - even if unintentionally - by your peers and role models.

It's entirely possible I may by inadvertently indoctrinating my scant readership to my inchoate manner of viewing the world simply by casting the impression of an authority - as if I have any idea what I'm doing.

The premise of indoctrination works like this: Person X is an authority, and because of that and that alone they are to be listened to uncritically.

As a toddler, you have no idea "why" using the potty is good thing. You're just taught and told to do it by an authority. Whether or not they have your best interests in mind is a matter you haven't yet developed the cognitive faculties to consider.

*never mind that toilets in the western world are just plain ill-suited to human excretory functioning - it's actually the blind leading the blind on this one. Just the same, that's how have we've been indoctrinated.

Not all indoctrination is bad, and moreover, it's unavoidable. It's how you confront indoctrination is where the rubber meets the labia.

If you want, for example, yourself or your child to learn to resist and defend against indoctrination, the best way to go about that is through exposure. Same deal with fighting, or immunity. You don't become a better fighter by avoiding conflict, nor do you strengthen your immune system by avoiding germs. I figure, why should it be any different when it comes to indoctrination? If you have that spark, you've got an unending supply of silly ideas and stupid notions to set ablaze.

Dark Enlightenment Feb 1

Show me one example of a non-indoctrinated person to exemplify. I mean, all the indoctrinated people I know of are, at this very moment, likely yelling at traffic and shitting themselves as the need arises as they walk.

There really aren't any. Maybe those weird feral children that grow up thinking they are a wolf or some shit.

It starts pre-literary, but by the time they are putting their ABC's together they are already experienced observers of their environment.

All ready forming routine.

I know for a fact I was being indoctrinated as young as two. When they still talked to me my parents told me of the time we were going into a restaurant once and all of a sudden I said "Nosmo King". My parents were puzzled and I said it again. Then they noticed I was looking at the "no smoking" sign.

Even before were are taught to read we are already being indoctrinated by Tesla songs and noticing those signs.

Kids learn via indoctrination to nomos. We are just the only species to write them down. It only becomes an issue if and when they become old enough to take issue with the unnecessary ones. That arises around the time gender identity forms, about 4 or 5.

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Feb 1

Anna Feb 2

@AK

I remember when I was a kid, I and my friend were one day peeing behind a car. My friend's mom saw us. She called my friend and forbade her to go out for the rest of the day. She was often punished in this way for even minor offences. She had to stay at home as a punishment. But when my friend's mom told my parents about the incident, they shrugged their shoulders. They didn't even reprimand me. It doesn't mean that they were too permissive. They sometimes reprimanded me or even yelled at times but that was reserved for more important issues. They just thought there was no need to make a fuss about trifles.

I think that our reaction to the indoctrination isn't only the matter of personality or some "inborn spark." I think it's more complicated than that. Our upbringing plays a role too and also the culture. Some cultures value obedience more than others, even uncritical obedience. Besides, in order to dissent from the bullshit, you must first realize it's bullshit. How could that be possible if you don't have enough knowledge, aren't motivated to learn more and are incapable of thinking critically?

I think that the larger the margin of freedom the parents and teachers leave children, the greater the chances that they will resist the eventual brainwashing. Also, the Western culture values more or less individualism. I don't mean to say that people don't fall for subtle manipulation. But they are more likely to rebel against direct oppressive commands. It's different in Muslim culture, for example. Let's consider women oppressed and bullied by their husbands. Generally, it's harder for them to break free from the oppression than it is for the women in the West because they are more accustomed to the oppressive regime.

There is some truth to what you say about the exposure making you immune. But in some cases, you can get so used to the oppression or to the bullshit that you will start regarding it as something normal. Like one can start viewing an elephant in the room as part of the furniture. Especially if you didn't have any opportunity to see anything different.

The Forum post is edited by Anna Feb 2