Drugs, Border Walls, and Reality | Forum

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Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment May 29 '19
Can violence beget prosperity? Does the US need a fucking wall? 

I live approximately 18 miles from the world's most violent city. With a homicide rate at 140/100,000  people it passed Caracas, Venezuela for that title in 2018.  As of April 1st this year there were 540 tallied by Tijuana Police.

Cartel violence has destroyed the less violent version of Baja, Mexico.

But you wouldn't know that looking over the border towards the transmission towers and multitude of high-rise residential developments residents can now afford.  The structures on each side of the border only differ in what language is on top, with no high rise development on the San Ysidro (US) side.

[Compare to a google search of "Tijuana at border".]

The economy has grown in proportion to the cartel violence. The payoffs, slush funds, and the many taquerias, bodegas, and farmacias what launder the money may be party responsible.

Standing seemingly apart from all this is a standard of living that is doable with a water treatment system.

The US federal minimum wage is  7.25/hour. Where it stands in places like Mississippi, Louisiana, and Kentucky.  

The Mexican minimum wage is 102.68/hour or in USD (at time of valuation) 5.10/hour. However, cities such as Cuidad Juarez, Nogales, Mexicali, Tecate, and Tijuana it is double the mexican national minimum at time of wage increase.

What this translates to is a sort of paradox.

In San Diego County the minimum wage is between 10.50 and 12.00/hour.  The average rent in the city proper is $1955/month for a one bedroom.

In Tijuana the minimum wage is 176.72/hour or 8.80/hour USD.  The average NEW 1 bedroom apartment is $500/Month, and that is considered "high".  

Too put it bluntly people in Tijuana make more and spend less than a resident of New Orleans, LA, where average rent is 1,120/month.

Poetically, the states that voted for Trump have a lower minimum wage and higher rent than Northern Mexico at the same time they are for a border wall, while also evoking state rights sans the federal minimum wage. 

There is obviously money flowing into the Mexican Federal Government to increase wages to these levels, but it leaves you wondering what the drug economy adds. This is speculative. 

The ultimate thing to take away from this is:

WHY THE FUCK IS THERE A NEED FOR A BORDER WALL WHEN TIJUANA (if you can overlook a 1 in 714 chance of being murdered, massive government corruption, and a need for personal water treatment) HAS A BETTER STANDARD OF LIVING THAN THE US?

Of course a natural response to this is: "It's Central/South America that ruin it for Northern Mexico".  And this is true, but far overblown as a useful argument for an unnecessary few billion being spent.  Which isn't all that much, about the same as Trump's net worth. 

The wall is the rock meant to keep tigers away, a specious project to combat a false dilemma. The cartels are also building and controlling several tunnels as we speak. The trope of a 21 foot ladder applied underground between the TJ bar and the US outlet store. 

It is my duty as a citizen to point out that the border wall is an unnecessary Hoover Dam and play at true-red republican support.  The types of folk with "Hillary for Jail" and Jesus stickers. 


* done editing *

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment May 29 '19
Brother Shamus
Brother Shamus May 29 '19
It's OK, I will respond to myself.

Poetically, the states that voted for Trump have a lower minimum wage and higher rent than Northern Mexico at the same time they are for a border wall, while also evoking state rights sans the federal minimum wage. 

This is a fun fact sheet: 

States Ranked by Republican Party Affiliation and Minimum Wage

[Source: Pew Research Center 2014, Paycor.com 2019]

# Republican Majority 20% +
* Democrat Majority 1-19%
** Democrat Majority 20% +
◇ Exception for small business to pay lower minimum wage

Wyoming 57% #  -  $5.15 (yes, it is legal)
Utah 54% #   - $7.25
South Dakota 53% - $8.65
Alabama 52% - $7.25
North Dakota 50% - $7.25
Idaho 49% - $7.25
Montana 49% - $8.50
Tennessee 48% - $7.25
Nebraska 47% - $9.00 (2)
Arkansas 46% - $9.25 (2)
Kansas 46% - $7.25
Oklahoma 45% - $7.25
Kentucky  44% - $7.25
Mississippi  44% - $7.25
Virginia 43% - $7.25
West Virginia. 43% - $8.75
South Carolina  43% - $7.25
Wisconsin 42% - $7.25
Ohio 42% - $8.55
Indiana 42% - $7.25

------------------------------------------------ Republican Line
North Carolina 41%  *  - $7.25
Missouri 41%  - $8.60
Louisiana 41% *  - $7.25
Colorado 41% * - $11.10
Georgia 41%  - $5.15 (see Wyoming)
Iowa 41%  - $7.25
Arizona 40%  -  $11.00 (1)(2)
Alaska 39%  -  $9.89 (2)
------------------------------------------------- Democrat Line 

Texas 39% *  - $7.25  (3)(4)(7)
Minnesota 39% *◇ - $9.65
Pennsylvania 39% * - $7.25 (7)
Nevada 37% * ◇ - $8.25 (7)
Florida 37% * - $8.46 (7)
New Mexico 37% * - $7.50 (7)
Maine 36% * - $11.00
New Hampshire 35% * - $7.25 (7)
Michigan 34% * -  $9.45
Washington 33% * -  $12.00
Illinois 33% * -  $8.25 (7)
Connecticut 32% * -  $10.10

Oregon 32% * -  $11.25 (5)
Maryland 31% **  - $10.10
Rhode Island 30% *  -  $10.50
New Jersey 30% ** - $8.85
California 30% * ◇  - $12.00
Vermont 29% *  - $10.78
Delaware 29% **  - $9.25 (6)
New York 28% **  - $11.10
Hawaii 28% **  - $10.10
Massachusetts 27% **  - $12.00
District of Columbia 11% **  - $14.00 (5)

(1) Arizona is the only republican majority state currently over $10.00/hour 

(2) The 4 Republican majority states above the exchange rate minimum wage of Tijuana ($8.80 USD)

(3) Texas HB 194 proposes wage increase to $15.00.  It would be the highest in the US.

(4) While Pew notes Texas rebuplican percentages at 39(R) - 40(D) in 2014, Gallup polls at 41(R) - 38(D) in 2017

(5) As of July 1st, 2019

(6) As of October 1st, 2019

(7) The 7 Democrat majority states below the exchange rate minimum wage of Tijuana.

The Forum post is edited by Brother Shamus May 29 '19
Brother Shamus
Brother Shamus May 29 '19
Ok dumbshit, do you have anything to say about the topic?

I will sum up the criticism: The problem is not a need for a border wall. That's a fake war like seen with Albania in Wag The Dog. The real issue is working wages are unlivable given rate of inflation. Millions of Mexicans at $8.80/hour make more than millions of Americans at $7.25.

Now, what the fuck is so pleasurable about my editorial here? 

You know what, Fuck it, I will let Ice T riff on this for me.


The Forum post is edited by Brother Shamus May 29 '19
Brother Shamus
Brother Shamus May 29 '19

The border wall panders to an LCD demographic. It is non-problem. A fake solution for a fake problem. To quote our president, "IT'S FAKE NEWS!". It is a 2.5 billion dollar non-applicable solution for a trillion dollar problem.  There would be an initial pause and then the economy would adjust because it always does. 

The problem, IMO, is:

Minimum Wages. 15,100/year is a fucking joke. (7.25 minimum) $21,120/year is less of a joke. (10.50 minimum) $25,344/year IS livable. (12.00 minimum)

It misdirects with smoke and mirrors and fake threats while the audience fails to notice the ticket price went up 35% in the past 5 years.  

The Forum post is edited by Brother Shamus May 29 '19
Brother Shamus
Brother Shamus May 30 '19
I am sick of noting them as control devices. It is just society. 

I shouldn't care, as I currently earn way more than minimum wage, but that could all change overnight and self employment doesn't have a severance package.  So it is applicable to me and I think its fucked. The control mechanism will be fine with higher wages. All of democracy is an artificial representation of Alpha tribal leaders applied for millions. The mechanism is needed beyond societies of a few hundred. 

Using the above metrics of minimum wage and rent cost; the best place to be a high school dropout are:

1. Pueblo, Colorado

2. Tucson, Arizona

3. Omaha, Nebraska 

4. Bakersfield, California 

5. Fresno, California

This is like the who's who of horrid shithole cities that are all in some barren high or low stinking desert or desolate plain.

But, if you can handle 95 inches of snow #6 and #7  are Rochester and Buffalo, NY respectively.  #8 is Cincinatti, OH

** For comparison the worst Metro Areas Are:

1. New York City, NY/NJ/CT
2. San Francisco, CA
3. Los Angeles, CA
4. San Diego, CA
5. Wasington, DC MD/VA
6. Seattle, WA
7. Chicago, IL/IN/WI
8. Honolulu, HI
9. Miami, FL
10. Denver, CO
The Forum post is edited by Brother Shamus May 30 '19
Tkwilliams Member
Tkwilliams May 30 '19
Very well reserched, I can agree that everything has so many sides and reasoning. But I think it pretty simple,  I have a fence around my land to mark out the land I own and control.  No boarders is the same as no country.  As for the effectiveness of the wall according to the department of homeland security which I work for the agents report fare more effectiveness in areas with the new wall system. If the migrants come to the station areas the officers can process the people faster and get them food and water quicker and the children to secure locations. Yesterday an admiral was asking logistics people from dc to help, there are to many people and the situation is critical. So if you all would like to volunteer DHS could use the help.

Brother Shamus
Brother Shamus May 30 '19

OMFG, an actual fucking answer.

I prefer a quote from the former Governor of Arizona and Secretary for Homeland Security: 

But when you really talk brass tacks to them about what is actually needed at the border, they'll talk about things like manpower. They'll talk about things like more technology — drones and sensors and night vision equipment, things of that sort. Those are the things that make sense to the average border patrolmen.

There are also far better DoD contracts to be had from Napalitano's take.  Even in nepotism/cronyism-land it is more enticing. 

This is a farce to show he is doing something. I also disagree with the "for the children" humanitarian aspect. Another line to get support of the empathetic drones. There have always been migrant children. There has always been dehydration deaths. 

It seems to be a rigid military mindset of an escalating problem. Images of people at the beach by the border, knowing full well La Migra on quads waits 'round the other side, becomes the masses trying to cross undocumented. It is easy to fall into an uncritical opinion when a superior says it.  

Yet, THERE IS LITTLE TO NO emphasis in mainstream media that the move by the administration of Mexican President Andres Obrador (and the ones before him) to give a gigantic boost to the minimum wage was specifically to keep people from needing a grass more green.

Now the problem falls to all those counties the CIA infiltrated in the 70's and used for funding. The OG cartels given life by past covert decisions that enflamed mass curruption. All "shades of cozened indigo" are hypocritical.  The 15th largest economy is not the treat. The fucked ones south of them are.  

Cartels are exempt because they use tunnels. The meth will still all get in. The Nicaraguans won't. Maybe ground penetrating radar is in order for that?

The logistics of the fence is also laugh-worthy. 

Mexicali/Calexico is a lot different than the area between Nogales and Agua Prieta. 

When I was a teenager in Southern Arizona we had what we called "christmas buds". Every December, when the first winter storm rolls through snow levels drop below 2500 feet often. This shrouded the many border mountains enough for all those wonderful back-packers to cross when seeing them was impossible. Motion sensors like at Groomlake would be far more effective.  

IMO the reasons why around the wall control is more effective. 

1. The walls in place are around heavily enforced conurbations and less likely to be an illegal crossing point.  

2. Those same conurbations are all closing the gap in quality of life with respect to each-other, unless you involve yourself with drugs and guns on the southern side.  Still, in border cities in Mexico a full time minimum wage employee makes $18,500/year. USD 

3. For around 10,000 pesos ($536 USD) you can use one of the afforementioned tunnels. Or about 62 hours of work for a Tijuana resident at minimum wage. The incurred risk is buying passage from MS-13.

Finally, as far as working for The DHS. I would never pass a backround check or be able to uphold a mission I consider littered with fallacious solutions. I don't have enough sense of duty left, apart from calling shit out.

The Forum post is edited by Brother Shamus May 30 '19
Tkwilliams Member
Tkwilliams May 31 '19
Well, be it all that complexity and I am sure your correct,  most of us honestly joined because we wanted to save lives.  No one thinks the wall is 100% effective but like you said its something. I would hate it to be like the boarders of other countries which are quite unwelcoming to say the least. But with all that drug money like you said I am sure they will let it all  in untill the southern part of the US becomes just like the place the normal families were fleeing,  I guess we should all get ready to migrate to Canada. 
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment May 31 '19
Myself and I's purpose for this is basic. 

There is a belief in the USA that the USA is the best, most righteous country, and blah blah nationalism blah blah superiority to all others.

In reality Eisenhower was right.  He warned of nepotism and coined the phrase "Military Industrial Complex". If Kennedy getting capped in Dallas for going after the Federal Reserve and defense contract for an invented war with communism didn't show The Oligarch; nothing will.  

There is genuine belief, even my former hippie parents hold, that there is no better place in the world.  This is the definition of bullshit. The blackout curtains of Scandanavia have a higher standard of living. Joining Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark are; Switzerland, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Austrailia, New Zealand, Japan, United Kingdom, France, and Belgium.  

And most thank their Value Added Taxes (VATs) for this.  25-40% And they happilly pay it  and still do BETTER than Americans. This instead of acting all put out because they are republican and that is socialism.  And the VATs make it work regardless of population. This is also why our public healthcare IS A FUCKING JOKE COMPARED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD. 

And before anyone says it, Yes I would expat my ass to any one of those countries if I had the means and they approved my VISA. Which isnt always a guarentee, even for Americans. Also, I will never have the means. Then learn a new language and love the tax off the top. Might then laugh at the slaves up their own socially superior asses.  Call it btterness and fuck the "meritocracy", it's one bent towards prayer breakfasts and hermetic shit anyway.  Far less Lutherans in Europe.

Give me my motherfucking one way ticket, Mr Douche

/\ That is also why I could NEVER hold a government job. I piss in their kool-aid.

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment May 31 '19
Anna May 31 '19
And I thought you would say you were coming to Poland.
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment May 31 '19
IDK. You gotta wonder about a country whose airforce flew a TU-154. Aeroflot has had a whole lot of success with that plane. Leftover soviet bullshit.. Poland is also really new in modern terms. Wasn't it Prussia 100 years ago? Am I too late for the 4:30 autogyro to Siam? 

But looking at a map I have deduced my Shangri La destination of Copenhagan is only a Germany away. 200 miles as the crow flies. As I have to make and sell enough meth to save the money to move.  I do not think I could pull off robbing a post office. 

So theoretical anal sex is not dead.

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment May 31 '19
Tkwilliams Member
Tkwilliams Jun 1 '19
Dont worry about moving to any of those countries you listed, if you have been paying attention you would see the standard of living for all European countries is dropping like a rock they are all coming down to our level with the exception of the homogeneous Japan which wants nothing to do with any of us, they would rather use robots to care for there aging population then allow outsiders to live in Japan as there forever home. There is no were to run folks . Its ether the same, worse or they dont want us. 
The Forum post is edited by Tkwilliams Jun 1 '19
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment Jun 1 '19
Fucking Muslims going and killing my Shangri La. 

And I know US News and World Report is not Bezos' Washington Post but...

As of 2019: 


The rankings are: 

1. Canada 

2. Sweden

3. Denmark

4. Norway

5. Switzerland

6. Finland

7. Austrailia

8. Netherlands

9. New Zealand

10. Germany. 

The Land of Oppurtunity with its poor huddled masses yearning to get out of the hood doesn't rank. Now stop before I show everyone pictures of what a Toronto ghetto looks like.

Translation dumb Fucking Republicans: SOCIALISM WORKS, and there is no too high of a population to pull it off because everyone pays into it. 

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jun 1 '19
Tkwilliams Member
Tkwilliams Jun 1 '19
           Personally the bi partisan party'sare bullshit and shouldn't be used to judge others. I simply want to be left to my own self determination. Yes in populations of homogeneous people the reasonable socialism works because most of the population can agree to the same ideas,  goals behavior and all people work toward  common vision.  The issue is when the other comes in the common bond deteriorates and it doesn't work because people start be lazy and dont put in there share of the work then the whole system fails. This is tribalism on a large scale,  it did work very well but multiculturalism destroys it. That was the whole point in the abrahamic religions they are multiculturalism  101.  Yes muslims, Christians or any of there variations are going to destroy the European countries and there successful  colonies those countries were so close to utopia,  but ((they)) are going to make sure that nonsense stops.
TheblackestBart Jun 1 '19

Pro tip, don't call it socialism because it isn't. The most successful country I know of is Finland and their level of prosperity comes from the same concept every other successful country's does. The are more or less politically unified, and they have god tier education standards. It doesn't matter what political spectrum they fall under, the true advantage for them and everyone else is a healthy and mentally sound populace.

That being said, they are doomed as well. Islam is a destructive force, and it sounds like the new finnish government wants to let in more muslims. The let in muslim tartars in the 1800s and they weren't exactly nice neighbors. You think they would learn. Europe is officially dead.

Brother Shamus
Brother Shamus Jun 1 '19
I use the term socialism because most people are stupid.  Obama tried the Ultra-Lite version of this and the dumbshit Fox News demographic wanted his head. 

So here is what I like about "socialism".

The myth is there are free handouts in a "socialist" society (country with socialized programs).  Those VAT's mean you work and are contributing member of said country.  And from what I have learned MOST have a sense of pride in that high tax rate. And also extremely low unemployment. 

For fun, compare a public emergency room in Stockholm or Helsinki to one in Los Angeles.  I dare eveneryone.

Ok, maybe National Socialism is a better term?  

* And apologies for not keeping consistant with what account is posting. I forget which one is logged in.

The Forum post is edited by Brother Shamus Jun 1 '19
TheblackestBart Jun 2 '19
Well people in scandanavia can pay actually afford their rent. It will be interesting to see how they handle population issues
Brother Shamus
Brother Shamus Jun 2 '19
Germany pulls it off with hundreds of millions.  It only works when people do. And as racist as it might sound it is a nordic trait.  No nobility in accepting social programs you dont pay into. Their want to work removes a poulation cap.  
The Forum post is edited by Brother Shamus Jun 2 '19
Jedi_Jane Jun 2 '19

If China has a Great Wall, so can America!

I'm not racist or anything, but, we need to keep Mexicans out of our country because: 1) most of them are uneducated, 2) most of them look ugly, 3) they breed like roaches, 4) their bitches get fat as fuck after the first baby, 5) they don't wanna learn English, 6) they smell bad, 7) they eat gross shit like chicharonies, 8) their kids start gangs, 9) they over populate our prisons, 10) they work stupid jobs, like pick strawberries, 11) they refuse to come into America legally, 12) most end up being liberal, 13) most end up voting Democrat. I can go on, but I'm not racist. I have many Mexican friends. I'm half "Mexican" myself, but the kind of European descent, not the brown skinned Paisa kind, and I love Mexican food. 

Edit: Note that when I use the term "Mexican" in the above paragraph, I mean the Paisas, I.E.: the ones of indigenous ancestry who have dark brown skin, and are not Caucazoids. 

The Forum post is edited by Jedi_Jane Jun 2 '19
Brother Shamus
Brother Shamus Jun 2 '19
You should see Riverside County. What a arid wasteland with no redeemable cities outside the Temecula wine country. 

I use it as an example because its like supplanting a red state in Southern California. The white folk are tweeker christian or heroin addicted gang members trying to be vatos. The natives are fucked by a climate of having to live in a place like Hemet or Moreno Valley. With the no trees and scree. A place littered with Calvary Chapels and fruit stands alike. 

The problem isn't race, it is that there's poor people, like from Riverside County. If Americans who worked were willing to pay a small even 2% VAT it could fund social programs for those who pay into it.  Unfortunately for the IE you have to work to receive said social programs.

The Forum post is edited by Brother Shamus Jun 2 '19
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