Deprogramming from Christianity | Forum

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 24

Quote from Dark Enlightenment 

So tell me, what is against that status quo about the rituals in the satanic bible. Is it really heterodox if you change god to Satan and call it a pageant? Its rehashed Gnosticism.  Lots of company is western society. 

Especially if you believe in the magical effect of the ritual like a Christian believes god answers prayers. 


Again... This act only takes place in the ritual chamber where the participants have broken their own intellectual norms. However, you can't compare magic with prayer because in magic it's about belief in your own power and since the Satanist typically is a doubter then he need to decompress his intellect in order to create the belief in the magic.


Quote from Dark Enlightenment 

It's like you think, "If they could see me do this ritual right now they'd be so scared of me!" 


If was going into ritual then it would be because I wanted to change something I could no do with normal method or the risk in the outside society was to high. 
Dark Enlightenment
I am going to fucking get you to get this and not leave you alone until I do.  It doesn't benefit me, and may be a futile waste of time, but it is a presented challenge. 
Quote from Tom Riddle 
Again... This act only takes place in the ritual chamber where the participants have broken their own intellectual norms. 
Oh okay, so the people that do the ritual itself are heterodox people and break cultural norms of society but the ritual itself is just group pagentry and only indirectly related to their satanic Heterodoxy? 


Quote from Tom Riddle 
However, you can't compare magic with prayer because in magic it's about belief in your own power and since the Satanist typically is a doubter then he need to decompress his intellect in order to create the belief in the magic
I can and will. When the belief is that MAGIC IS REAL IN ANY WAY it is absolutely interchangeable with prayer. 


In any other case by its very design (because you have to suspend your disbelief to believe) it is only something one can do for themselves. At most it can only sharpen later satanic action. 


And saying the focus of the LHP in Satanism is the make-believe of the ritual is like saying exercise is the focus of the enlightenment in Buddhism.


Is exercise the central theme of Buddhism? Or is it just some tool on their eightfold path of enlightenment? 
Even in the context of the religion you want it to be; your intellectual decompression is one small piece of the path, and not directly related to your satanic actions.  


 [Redundant comment removed]


The LHP part comes unrelated to the ritual and in real time. For LHP to manifest it requires orthodoxy or a social catalyst. It's action (a way of behaving) in real-time situations. 


Using you as an example yet again. 


***\/*** This is the most important part. ***\/***


Whatever we are saying about Satanism is the RHP orthodoxy in the micronomos of this website. 


Your "LHP manifestations" are in the engagement on this forum. Your LHP manifestations are in your stubborn "counterproductive pride" and refusal to concede. Which isn't really "a sin" because you are intellectually incapable of seeing it that way. Still your LHP actions are not your intellectual decompression bullshit but your impulse to constantly assert YOUR FUCKING WILL from a position of combat. 


Like when you start a thread to repeat yourself you don't want to talk about the topic. You want to stand by and reiterate your position for your ego's glorication. And you know that's the case 


That's where the Satanism is. That is the core of the fucking adversary. 


So tell me, did you do a ritual or just start the antagonistic thread to tell our "orthodoxy" (and calling you a poser) to fuck off because it makes you feel better? 


The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 25
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 25
Quote from Dark EnlightenmentOh okay, so the people that do the ritual itself are heterodox people and break cultural norms of society but the ritual itself is just group pagentry and only indirectly related to their satanic Heterodoxy? 

Both yes and no. The satanic or heterodox is the self deification but that's not something that connects you with others of your kind. The Satanist therefore needs symbolism and ceremony in order to connect himself with others of his kind and preserve that connection. The invoked devils represents the evil, barbaric, animalistic and heterodoxic side of the Satanist that will bring him into social troubles as he don't live in a satanic society and never will because Satanism is not meant for anyone. The black mass is also 
heterodox and IMO LaVey should have tied it to the satanic holidays and have it's steps written down in Book of Belial instead of first in TSR.



The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 25
Dark Enlightenment
You're up, Anna...
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 25
Quote from Dark Enlightenment IEven in the context of the religion you want it to be; your intellectual decompression is one small piece of the path, and not directly related to your satanic actions.  

First of all, it's called THE intellectual decompression chamber. It's the satanic version of a church or holy temple... 


Magic is the ability to create change according to the will that with normal method would be impossible to change, so it's role in the life of a Satanist depends on what personal path he is on. My personal transformations I go through cannot be done by normal method...

Anna
Anna Jul 25

Quote from Tom Riddle
Both yes and no. The satanic or heterodox is the self deification but that's not something that connects you with others of your kind. The Satanist therefore needs symbolism and ceremony in order to connect himself with others of his kind and preserve that connection. The invoked devils represents the evil, barbaric, animalistic and heterodoxic side of the Satanist that will bring him into social troubles as he don't live in a satanic society and never will because Satanism is not meant for anyone. The black mass is also heterodox and IMO LaVey should have tied it to the satanic holidays and have it's steps written down in Book of Belial instead of first in TSR.




A ritual for you is a convenient excuse for you not to do anything heterodox (I hate that word) in the real world. You do fantasy and role-playing like a child. You transgress the norms but only in your imagination. You're not for real. How that ties you to the LHP, I don't know. I thought Satanism was about actions, not declarations.

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 25
Quote from Anna 

A ritual for you is a convenient excuse for you not to do anything heterodox (I hate that word) in the real world. You do fantasy and role-playing like a child. You transgress the norms but only in your imagination. You're not for real. How that ties you to the LHP, I don't know.


A ritual for me is a magical operation. I need magic because I want to go through a personal transformation which with normal method would be impossible to do.


I'm careful with being transgressive in the outside world as it easy can lead me into troubles socially that will give me disadvantages. I have been kicked out from most groups and forums because of my transgressive behavior. 


Quote from Anna . I thought Satanism was about actions, not declarations.

Satanism is all about declarations. Remember that Satanists are born and not made. The satanic religion is a tool to preserve a connection between Satanists.


The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 25
Anna
Anna Jul 25
So to sum up: In your ritual chamber you're Harry Potter. In the real world, you're a coward.

Oh wait I forgot you prefer playing Lord Voldemort.


Avada Kedavra!


Let's see if my magic works on you.

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 25
Quote from Anna In the real world, you're a coward.


No, it's called common sense...
Wolfie
Wolfie Jul 25
The change Tom is trying to bring about through ritual is personal transformation. This really does fit in perfectly with my second requirement for a palatable Satanic philosophy:


2. Ritual only affects the practitioner, and only mentally.


Meanwhile, Tom doesn't believe in the objective existence of Satan, which is why he employs his intellectual decompression chamber. He finds a way to temporarily believe in Satan during ritual. He also identifies Satan with himself. All of this fits in perfectly with my first requirement for a palatable Satanic philosophy:


1. Demons only exist in the mind, and are representations of the self.


"Only existing in the mind" and "only existing for the practitioner during ritual" are, for all practical purposes, synonymous.


Tom, you're only one step away from a point of view that's pretty close to my own. That one step is this: Being willing to blaspheme against Satanism itself.


Here's an example. I say publicly and happily that if it's true that LaVey thought demons existed in external reality and ritual directly affected external reality, then fuck his spiritual pipedreams, fuck his intellectual dishonesty, fuck his wishful thinking, fuck his self-deceit, and fuck him! Exhume his corpse and fuck it up the ass.


Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 25
Quote from Wolfie

Tom, you're only one step away from a point of view that's pretty close to my own. That one step is this: Being willing to blaspheme against Satanism itself.


I have accepted that I don't know what the Powers of Darkness are and I cannot see how it matters whatever they actual exists or not. There can be many possibilities and I have only listen some few that came across my mind. 


I will not say that the intellectual decompression chamber is a blaspheme towards Satanism itself because if you are your own god (like the mythological Satan) and Satan is the symbolic projection of your ego then it make sense to worship Satan because it's the worship of yourself. What many here in this forum don't realizes is that religion is not about faith. People do not worship the gods because they are believers. They worship the gods because it's an excuse to preserve an event or a culture. That's why you can't argue against religious people with reason because their religion is their identity.

The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 25
Anna
Anna Jul 25

Quote from Wolfie 

Here's an example. I say publicly and happily that if it's true that LaVey thought demons existed in external reality and ritual directly affected external reality, then fuck his spiritual pipedreams, fuck his intellectual dishonesty, fuck his wishful thinking, fuck his self-deceit, and fuck him! Exhume his corpse and fuck it up the ass.



It's vital for any occult organization to keep an aura of mystique around its founder. Let's not forget that Anton LaVey didn't write stuff for himself. He was writing for his followers, he was a heart and soul of the organization he created. What would that say about the High Priest of the Church of Satan if his magic couldn't influence the reality? Such a guy would be redundant. All the rumour spread about LaVey's magical powers, and even his own words, contributed to his legend. At that point, he was more than a human, he was a magician using his Satanic powers to kill his enemies, like Sam Brody.


Does that make LaVey dishonest? I think it's not so hard to figure out the purpose of the mythos. Emotions come before reason. Stories and rituals appeal to emotions. People need wonder and awe, mystery and charm. And if they are attracted to Satanism, they also expect some chill down the spine. Like that their High Priest can invoke the most evil forces to punish his enemies. Reason alone is not so appealing.


We can't really say what LaVey thought, we will never know. We only know what he wrote and these are two different things. 


There is one text by LaVey dedicated to revenge, where he writes as an ordinary person, not a magician. At least, this is my impression. This text is called Desiderata.


My worst enemies are those who presume me to be harmless. They cannot imagine how much I resent and disdain them, or just how great a threat they would face if I could get at them. Everything in their behavior speaks of insult and presumptuousness, and for now it is all I can do to make constructive use of my anger toward them. At this time, I just make a list of them and keep a watch on. Some day, with the help of time, space, and circumstance, I will be able to humiliate them properly - not in a manner they would enjoy, but in a style calculated to make them wish that they had never been born.


It's up to readers whether they want to keep the mythos or reject it. It's really superfluous, ornamental, a source of inspiration and endless philosophical debates.

The Forum post is edited by Anna Jul 25
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 25
Quote from Anna And if they are attracted to Satanism, they also expect some chill down the spine. Like that their High Priest can invoke the most evil forces to punish his enemies. Reason alone is not so appealing.

And ALL this happens INSIDE the intellectual 
decompression chamber. It's better that a Satanist goes into that instead of going out and stab the evil bitch that made his life a living hell 666 time and then go to jail for 12 years for murder... 
The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 25
Wolfie
Wolfie Jul 25
Anna, you illustrate nicely the reasons I reject the CoS and all such organizations:


1. They worship their founders, and I worship nothing and no one.

2. They spin fables about their founders, and I reject all fables.


Tom, I like your point that religion is an identity, and identity trumps reason. Your point disgusts me, but I think it's accurate. Evangelicals aren't Evangelicals because they believe. They believe because they're Evangelicals. If they stopped believing, they would lose their very selves (or so they fear). Nauseating, but insightful.


My identity is centered on the self I experience in my own head. I can't lose this identity except by death or brain damage. For as long as I'm able to avoid those two eventualities, I'm free to become whatever I wish, because whatever I become, I'm still the self inside my head.


 

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 25
Quote from Wolfie

1. They worship their founders, and I worship nothing and no one.

2. They spin fables about their founders, and I reject all fables.


It can therefore be questioned how many of the members of the COS today are Satanists because a Satanist would only worship Satan/himself.



Quote from Wolfie

Tom, I like your point that religion is an identity, and identity trumps reason. Your point disgusts me, but I think it's accurate. Evangelicals aren't Evangelicals because they believe. They believe because they're Evangelicals. If they stopped believing, they would lose their very selves (or so they fear). Nauseating, but insightful.


My identity is centered on the self I experience in my own head. I can't lose this identity except by death or brain damage. For as long as I'm able to avoid those two eventualities, I'm free to become whatever I wish, because whatever I become, I'm still the self inside my head.


Seen from a satanic perspective religion is a tool. The satanic religion serves to preserve a connection between Satanists and that connection makes the Satanist able to perform destruction ritual within the group that helps to decompress his intellect further which is required for the psychodrama can work. Satanism is the only religion that understands the function of religion.
The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 25
Dark Enlightenment
My turn again! 
Quote from Tom RiddleSeen from a satanic perspective religion is a tool....  Satanism is the only religion that understands the function of religion.
You're right, it is understood as tool, it's mainly a tool of coping. The function of religion is Satanically understood as an invention of man, correct?  An invention of man to answer questions, provide comfort, and give hope.  


It's use is understood as exoteric.  


I am going to focus in on something now. 

The satanic religion serves to preserve a connection between Satanists and that connection makes the Satanist able to perform destruction ritual within the group that helps to decompress his intellect further which is required for the psychodrama can work. 


Que? 


So the religion is in the aesthetics and dogmatic rituals that are performed and connect the individual "Satanists" in activity? Activities which create bonds and are collectively understood as psychodrama (a show). 


So the satanist understands they need a codependent group of "like minds" to do like things with?  


Do we all sit around the fire singing Kumbaya too? 


I don't know about you but I'm here for the same chemical reason people troll Reddit. With a secondary goal along overt  subversive antitheist lines. 


But as a Satanist (because I need to reassert that) I understand the human predisposition of that particular rush of oxytocin and do not see it in a pejorative light. Even if it is just sorta selfishly glorifying my ego.


Addendum: 


What doesn't serve my ego and self is being part of a group doing the same thing in an uncomfortable and painful way. Serving my ego is saying out loud, "Fuck, this is painful to take part in." 


Painful is following an ironic ceremony taken seriously, and calling on the devil in unison as some priest bitch rings a bell and drinks from a cup. Painful Is thinking that is harnessing the power of darkness in myself.  


If I really wanted to presence the power of darkness (as defined by society) I'd take someone out to the desert in the middle of the night and hunt them like the Butcher Baker.  And while that is an extreme example, you can't presence the darkness of this world through psychodrama alone. 


If rather live right here, right now. And right here, right now I want to mock your codependent need for an exoteric dogmatic satanism.





The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 25
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 25
Quote from Dark Enlightenment

So the satanist understands they need a codependent group of "like minds" to do like things with?  


Based on my own experience I have realized that the satanic rituals are meant to be performed in a group as the group helps the individual to decompress his intellect. It's not enough with symbolism and the ritual chamber alone. The psychodrama only works if the intellect is completely decompressed and it can be difficult if you are a rational skeptic working alone.

The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 25
Cornelius Coburn
Quantum Entanglement is kind of magical; Einstein referred to it as "Spooky action at a distance'. It mostly refers to particles, but perhaps it may also refer to other phenomena that are connected/influenced, one by another even over great spatial distances.


Which reinforces the concept of the universe as a complex and diverse structure of a singular entity as is found at its origin - transformation.

Dark Enlightenment

If there is anything on this planet connected to superhuman ability it's quantum entanglement-esque.  It's going to be a resonant frequency produced in an extremely low frequency range, delta waves.  


I want to say there's more to the ionosphere and schumann resonances than is readily apparent in the realm of consciousness.  Like how windy days with excited ions can piss you off, or broadcasting a broadwave signal from orbit at 17 hertz can agitate a crowd of targeted people. The last one being a declassified MKUltra experiment. 


But don't quote me on that because all that can be shown is you can measure brainwaves in the hertz range on an EEG. The brain produces electromagnetic waves. 


Also still entertaining the matrix. 


Interesting but not enough to base ANY belief off of. 

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 25
Dark Enlightenment
Okay, I acknowledge this may be my mental block...


Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Dark Enlightenment

So the satanist understands they need a codependent group of "like minds" to do like things with?  


Based on my own experience I have realized that the satanic rituals are meant to be performed in a group as the group helps the individual to decompress his intellect. It's not enough with symbolism and the ritual chamber alone. The psychodrama only works if the intellect is completely decompressed and it can be difficult if you are a rational skeptic working alone.

Okay, how do you do it? 


How does a group of people calling upon the powers of darkness together make it easier to believe in the temporary fantasy? 


I must have no imagination. Because I imagine it would be excruciatingly painful and most certain not work towards the desired effect.


How does personal transformation cone from purposeful fantasy? And does a group doing that make it easier? 
How does something assanine I can't take seriously refine me into anything more than more of a skeptic?


In fact the only refining benefit I see in a painful group ritual would be pushing myself into an uncomfortable situation that makes me want to scream,


 "I FEEL LIKE SUCH A TOOL DOING THIS WITH YOU PEOPLE. HOW ARE YOU ALL FEELING THE POWER OF DARKNESS FROM THIS?" 


But the act of putting myself in that uncomfortable situation strengthens my ability towards uncomfortable situations thereafter. 


Is that the purpose of ritual? 


How do I derive power from it? 

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 25
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