How does the concept of "community" operate in your satanic praxis? | Forum

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Corvus Corax Member
Corvus Corax Dec 12 '15
What are the skillful means by which those of us with satanic traits navigate the advantages and threats posed by operating in a community, while defying the trappings of the herd mentality?
Corvus Corax Member
Corvus Corax Dec 12 '15
SO, what strategies are we all using to manage the necessity of membership in communities while at the same time rejecting the herd mentality?
Hartnell Dec 12 '15
Great question . 
ShadowLover Member
ShadowLover Dec 12 '15
When I was 17yo, my boyfriend at the time were debating something and he got the shits and said, "Have you ever considered that maybe the rest of the world is right and that you are wrong."

I was honest when I replied, "Yes I have and I still believe that I am right and the rest of the world is wrong!"

It sounds really arrogant, but what do you do...

I think when you have a lot of conviction in your belief or argument, you will separate others from the herd before they pull you in.

When I worked full-time in sales with a whole bunch of people I found it utterly exhausting - people talked about shit that I just was not interested in and I had to listen or engage in it five days a week. The only fun thing they talked about was sex.

And even when I was married and we would do things with my husband's friends and their wives, who were lovely by the way, I could only do it for short and predetermined amounts of time. But I used to enjoy tapestry days with the wives. Mundane conversation is pleasant enough when you also have something else to concentrate on. I also did this when my husband held meetings at our home for his train club - I would sit outside with the men and do tapestry while they had discussions and past motions about what point to buy from what shop etc, and write it in the minutes. I didn't care about any of that but I did enjoy building scenery and creating worlds for the trains to run on.

And don't get me started about when my husband convinced me to do tuckshop duty (school canteen). I just wanted to stab myself in the wrist and drag the knife up my forearm. I ended up getting out of it by faking illness (that was before I learned to just say No).

So I guess my strategies are (for common social situations):
- To develop true conviction in what you believe in
- Divert the conversation
- Have something to do with your hands or that will otherwise occupy  you
- Have an escape plan
ShadowLover Member
ShadowLover Dec 13 '15
I think I misunderstood the question... I thought you meant outside communities, but now I think you mean Satanic communities...

However, I still think having conviction in your own personal beliefs (but of course being open to learn) works.

Also having a good self-esteem because their is simply no compulsion to follow a herd when you feel awesome about yourself. So any self-development/awareness work will benefit you in this regard.

However, because humans are by nature social creatures, you may still seek groups and various sub-cultures where you are most likely to find your kin or have your personal needs met. I guess it comes down to the difference of being with a herd as opposed to of a herd - and our positions on this scale probably vary for many of us from time to time.
Corvus Corax Member
Corvus Corax Dec 13 '15

Thank you for all of your thoughful responses so far. Many voices serve as bellows to our collective black flame.

@Shadowlover....I was thinking along those lines also, as to being "with" as oposed to being "of". Please expand on that for your experiences.

Here's where the Third Side Intelligence LaVey aptly posits as one emancipatory teaching. Heres a link in case your interested.

nith Dec 14 '15

One of the best stealth tricks is don't disagree with everything you don't like.

So many people think that if you don't openly disagree then you must agree, use this flaw. This is why the single word reply of “ok” is a good cover phrase as it denotes you have understood what was said but does not say you agree.

In the same way that the less I care about someone the easier it is to be polite and people take the politeness as caring.

Hartnell Dec 14 '15
@OP: I think Satanism covers 'defyng the trappings of herd mentality'. That freedom is the advantage, and a boogaboo threat to those who can't. 

Besides that, I'm selective, even in Satanic community. Too many people think that one Satanist should accept another just because they can poke at a keyboard.

ShadowLover Member
ShadowLover Dec 14 '15
I think Zach is referring to this kind of thing when he talks about how the some Satanic Churches seem to just regurgitate now, without having anything else to offer. Attendees could be described as a herd if they just accept their current status, walking around and around in a  group, and no longer seeking to expand their experience and grow as individuals.

BTW, I have no personal experience with any of the churches myself and am only familiar with them through others' posts.
The Forum post is edited by ShadowLover Dec 14 '15
ShadowLover Member
ShadowLover Dec 16 '15
@ Corvus. You asked me to expand on the concept of "With the Herd as opposed to Of the Herd."

I believe as humans we are naturally sociable - even people like me who sometimes have to fight off the temptation to just become a reclusive weirdo. We enjoy company on all different levels - whether it is emotional, mental or physical. Groups, sub-cultures, clubs etc, all help to fulfill the basic human need to socialise. We choose which people to enjoy company with, often for narcissistic reasons - on some level they make us feel good. They satisfy us to some extent.
When we share things in common, it is kind of like a validation of your righteousness - somebody values your beliefs. If you are not confident in yourself, this validation is important. Think of your best friend and why you chose to be best friends - you will probably share core values and when you are together are superior creatures within your own reality and you are each provide testimony to that superiority. You mirror each others own sense of awesomeness!

At this stage, I don't actually claim to be a Satanist, but from what I've read on here, Satanists have completely different ideas on what a Satanist is, anyway. Satanists tell each other they're not Satanists so in my confusion I've got no hope. LOL.

What I do claim, is that I see a lot of value in Satanic ideals. But! Perhaps the reason I see value in the first place is because Satanism validates concepts which I already lived by. It is good to understand your own motives. But because I see familiars here, I like to hang out and learn - people here help me expand on my own concepts, sometimes by what they say and sometimes by how they interact. SIN provides me with mental stimulation, as well as the peace one feels when you are in a place with others of similar or  complimentary needs.

Sometimes I like to wear black or Gothic stuff, and sometimes I wear brightly coloured sarongs and put flowers in my hair. Doesn't matter - my clothes don't define what I choose to honour, although particular clothes can be valuable in ritual.

When you are not "Of" the herd you don't have to adhere to all the rules. Satanists don't have to adhere to all of the rules of Satanism, if there is such a thing - Satanism is about individuality isn't it? For instance, I believe in eternity - I believe energy is conscious and we can never cease to exist. I have learned here that many Satanists do not ascribe to reincarnation or any other form of an afterlife. I would be a herd animal if I decided to believe this just because other people do. If I do believe it one day it will be because I learned something that convinced me and changed my mind... Not because it is the popular consensus.

In other words, people with the herd (we are all with the herd) may share beliefs simply because they each individually have satisfied the validity of that belief, whereas people of the herd will share the belief because it is what the herd believes.

The Forum post is edited by ShadowLover Dec 16 '15
nith Jan 12 '17

@Debe, The word “ok” like many other words has multiple uses in conversation. Combine that with most people want others to agree with them and often look for signs of that agreement. Once this use of the word and base reaction is identified it can be used as trick or simple conversation ender.

Much of the time the use of a word depends on factors outside those stated. Take for instance Frater, depending on his actual intelligence and understanding (unknown at the moment), he could be anything from a well worded troll to a rhetoric using idiot.

If the intent is not known it can confuse the use of the word “ok”. The only way around that confusion is the explanation of the actual intent. If I was only to use catch phrases then those that assume my intent will get any meaning out of it they want to but even that will be just a guess.

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