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Are politics an important part of Satanism? | Forum

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Icecold99
Icecold99 Oct 2 '14

From reading Anton Lavey's books I take it he wanted the Church of Satan to stay apolitical.  I understand why he wanted to do this.  On the same token I think there are political issues like free speech and the right to assemble that are important to Satanism. 

I thought it was interesting to see political commentary on the Church of Satan's news section.  There was an article there comparing the Obama Administration to the Putin Administration.  The article talks about how the media in both countries is owned by a small group of rich people. 

I generally like Lavey's leadership better than Gilmore's.  I was happy to see this article.  I think it addresses corporate monopolization of the media and how that limits freedom of speech.  There doesn't have to be government regulation of the media for their to be controls on civil liberties.  Freedom of speech is not something we should give up passively. 

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Kenneth
Kenneth Oct 3 '14
Politics play more of a role in the relationship between satanic "organizations" and the rest of society than they do in satanic philosophy. That you think concepts such as free speech and the right to assemble are important to Satanism is not a coincidence, as they involve asserting oneself, acting in accordance with one's will. 
Icecold99
Icecold99 Oct 3 '14

I'm guessing some of you have seen the Omen III.  In this movie Damien is a political figure and uses it to advance his Satanic agenda.  One part I liked was when they talk about how the antichrist is going to rise up and "by peace he shall destroy many."  I think what this means to me is that sometimes it can be beneficial to oneself to avoid conflict with others and especially with nontheists. 

Some level of conflict is inevitable.  That being said I think spending too much time on sectarian disputes may be unnecessary. 

All of the Omen movies are kind of overblown and dramatic, but that can also be said of the world we live in and not of any one person individually. 

JasinElric
JasinElric Oct 5 '14
Satanism, in and of itself, has absolutely no need to align with any political view.  Contrary to what has already been mentioned, no political order need exist for Satanism to exist, unless, of course, said Satanists feel the need to tout their beliefs to the world. (Something I find, in many ways, counterproductive)
Brazy Member
Brazy Dec 11 '14
Politics will always be important, as it affects the worlds population directly and indirectly; satanists included. Although, I do not look at myself as a political guru, nor do I care to partake initiative in it, I do recognize its influence. I know that it will take more than just my vote alone to tip the scale of politics in my favor, but I also know that it's a start for like minded individuals. 


What I despise about American politics is the religious principles it was based on, as well as the issues they choose to approach with priority. Do I feel like Satanists should attempt to overthrow/destroy the government? Of course not, they can make that happen on their own. Do I feel like Satanists should form a political party of our own? Of course not, although a Satanic president does have a nice ring to it.


Do I feel our presence is needed in politics? Yes and no. I state that loosely because I feel that everybody has some extent of influence. But as Greg_Thomas stated:


Quote from Greg_Thomas I do not think any Satanist organization should get involved in politics because they would be wearing that tag and only hurt who they endorsed. So for now, the time isn't right,it i best for satanist to be secretive in their works when it comes to politics, then the day will come when we rule all and no one will know how it happened! 

And besides, self-preservation is always a priority. So a Satanist in a congress position would more likely make decisions based on personal interests rather than the interests of Satanists as a whole. Then again, what would be in the best interests of Satanists as a whole when we are "like-
minded" and unlike-minded at the same time. I respect politics.... But FUCK POLITICS!!!

Brazy Member
Brazy Dec 17 '14

Quote from Greg_Thomas Good points Brazy, and by the way, welcome back.
Thanks Greg... Feels good to be back, been going through some things... But i'm back on track; for the most part. And to the latter, although the progress is minimal, it is progress none-the-less; gotta bask in it.
Quote from Greg_Thomas It is a good thing, the only thing I am worried about is if they start to lose control and they notice they may very well put up a hell of a fight before they go down, the question is, will we and our political representatives be able to withstand the onslaught that will come in the end in a final "all in" attempt to keep control?
This really peaked my interest, and more so, I'm curious as to how other SIN members would respond to this question. Great topic of discussion.
johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Dec 21 '14
The answer isn't yes or no. The answer is somewhere in the middle.


I don't think politics should matter most of the time. i.e., Congress passing new budgets for agencies that have no bearing on your life, etc.


When it does begin to matter is when new bills are introduced or pushed for that affect you, either directly or indirectly. 


As luz said earlier, it's important for self-preservation. Apathy for politics is understandable, but then you'll just be contributing to the possibility of waking up under a Christian theocracy one fine morning. And nobody wants that.

johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Dec 21 '14

Quote from Greg_ThomasIt is a good thing, the only thing I am worried about is if they start to lose control and they notice they may very well put up a hell of a fight before they go down, the question is, will we and our political representatives be able to withstand the onslaught that will come in the end in a final "all in" attempt to keep control?

Yes, we will. You've got me. :D


I've studied military tactics since I was 5, starting with Sun Tzu's Art of War. 

Beavery
Beavery Sep 9 '15

My personal ideal political system would be a democracy in which votes are weighed based upon the amount of income tax one pays. Corporations would not be granted citizenship in this arena. Only real human beings, but their voting power would be based upon their contribution to the society within which they are voting and the value they provide. This solves the problem of democracy within which the lazy and incompetent vote to rob the competent and willing.

I know plenty will object and say I am a horrid beast, but none of value to me. Why would I say such a mean and nasty thing? Simple, many will argue that well I'm an artist and nobody wants to buy my works so you are condemning art. You're wrong, I love art. Good art that is, and I have shelled out thousands in my appreciation of it in commissions.

Many believe that elitism is defined simply by stating that they are elite. If one is elite there is no need to tell others because exception is obvious. I must remind these deluded fools that everything is relative. To compare yourself to yourself only demonstrates an ability to improve. Elite is absolutely a relative term by definition and as such must be taken in comparison to others, competition if you will.

Some will cry and say well I'm elite because I continually improve. No! (Boyd Influence Though I am Waiting on The Book to Arrive) That does not fucking cut it since elite is a relative term. While competition with ones self is great, I have a term for it. It's called practice. I've spent plenty of time competing with myself on the MX track when I was young, the entirety of the effort was to improve my skill to better throw roost in the face of my competitors, the same on the football field, the same today with my golf game, and that is the reason I continue to study math and engineering, now more than anything in the greatest competition I have ever competed. (Commercial Engineering)

LaVey states that enemies are necessary for glory. This is precisely what he is talking about. I have always honed myself for competition, there are those who are my superiors who best me, they are inspirations to try harder that I may eventually best them, they inspire me just as much as those who I have defeated in reward of victory. They continually become more scarce with increased effort I invest in my game. There are also those who are incompetent, who I tend to ignore because they offer no glory in victory.

Some will say well I'm an artist and I am my sole critic. Sorry but I am a pragmatists so try and defend an empty belly any way you wish at the end of the day it cannot be defended if one accepts the fundamental objective of life as not dying. Kind of like someone in the hunter gatherer days who chooses to make their way by picking inedible flowers. No use to anyone under the circumstances. I thinks a Satanic artist either produces works which will put food on the table or resigns art to a hobby and is a full and well enough developed person to find a way to excel in life even if it isn't their first choice of a career. A hunter gatherer who does neither is useless baggage in a practical sense and since the meaning of life is not dying, they fail. Art is great, but never of more value than the artist.

To Quote Gwar, Martyrdumb.

On a side note I came from nothing, grew up with everyone turning their nose up at me and it was really tough. Broke my heart being looked down upon as a dirty son of a drunken farmer who I loved so much and still do.

Regards,

Beavery

Beavery
Beavery Sep 10 '15
@ Beavery Shutup you boorish drunken A$$.
Troll Member
Troll Oct 25 '15
Those Satanists who aren't in some way political within enduringly Christian-twisted cultures are complacent and weak. Advocating for a break with self-defeating and ascetic ideals is the work of the strident LHP. Effectively, all LHP action is political in that it destroys the inertia of orthodoxy that glorifies conformity, dressing it in the apparel of Correctness. Fear of standing out as a leader and exemplar of virtue demonstrates a lack of Satanic majesty.
Hartnell
Hartnell Oct 26 '15

@troll: "Those Satanists who aren't in some way political within enduringly Christian-twisted cultures are complacent and weak."


Or have better things to do. I prefer direct action requiring realism, rather than attempting accomplishing anything by having first to change the world to suit any kind of idealism before any practical action can be taken.  Have you read Don't Quixote?


"Advocating for a break with self-defeating and ascetic ideals is the work of the strident LHP. Effectively, all LHP action is political in that it destroys the inertia of orthodoxy that glorifies conformity, dressing it in the apparel of Correctness. Fear of standing out as a leader and exemplar of virtue demonstrates a lack of Satanic majesty."


Heh ;) , that answers my question about whether or not you've read Don Quixote.  

Troll Member
Troll Oct 27 '15
Keen, i can totally understand being motivated to politics only by the twistedness one encounters which is an obstacle (self-interest). And yes, i made a special study of The Ingenious Gentleman of La Mancha, Don Quixote, by Cervantes. I encountered first the corruption of that classic and in apprension of its actuality was disappointed that he was a madman but adored the fact that as a novel it contained itself (recursion).
The Forum post is edited by Troll Oct 27 '15
ShadowLover Member
ShadowLover Oct 29 '15
I was raised in a society based on Christian values but I am not Christian and don't believe in a Christian God. But what bugs me is when I get people on my Facebook bashing Christians and try to bully and belittle them for having belief and in their very next breath push for a Carbon Tax.

It is my view that because Christianity no longer holds power over people like it once did, that the corporate leaders had to create a new God to control the masses. Meet man-made climate change - an evil which will destroy you all unless you make atonement and pay a Tax! The zillions of dollars already collected might not have fixed the environment but it will save you - in fact, just don't question us about it and what we do with it, and just trust that we will use it to save you. ...And best keep paying your tidings because this is a global problem that isn't going to go away anytime soon and if you don't pay it all mankind will surely die.

FFS!

The very people that think they are intelligent for not believing in God were the first to buy into the new God. (rolls eyes).
JicNikk Member
JicNikk Jan 4 '16

Quote from Serpentis666 https://www.churchofsatan.com/policy-on-politics.php


Everything mentioned about Politics by Peter Gilmore and the church of Satan I wholeheartedly agree with. Personally I do believe that we do need a foothold in politics to counteract political/religious supremacy from our rivals until the day comes where Satanists make up the political and religious elite in the world. Then and only then can long term progress be made through politics.


\m/

Where I do agree with this stance, I haven't seen much activity at all from the CoS regarding this.  They are big to make claims, restrict their members from producing anything creatively Satanic without asking for credit, or squashing activities done by any other self-proclaimed Satanist deeming that they are the only Satanic group of any credible stature.


It's easy to fly a flag, but near impossible to keep it standing without a firm foundation.  Which is something I feel the CoS has been lacking.

JicNikk Member
JicNikk Jan 5 '16

Quote from Serpentis666
Quote from JicNikk
Quote from Serpentis666 https://www.churchofsatan.com/policy-on-politics.php


Everything mentioned about Politics by Peter Gilmore and the church of Satan I wholeheartedly agree with. Personally I do believe that we do need a foothold in politics to counteract political/religious supremacy from our rivals until the day comes where Satanists make up the political and religious elite in the world. Then and only then can long term progress be made through politics.


\m/

Where I do agree with this stance, I haven't seen much activity at all from the CoS regarding this.  They are big to make claims, restrict their members from producing anything creatively Satanic without asking for credit, or squashing activities done by any other self-proclaimed Satanist deeming that they are the only Satanic group of any credible stature.


It's easy to fly a flag, but near impossible to keep it standing without a firm foundation.  Which is something I feel the CoS has been lacking.

If their members are producing content that promotes Satanism then they do need to give the CoS credit considering that CoS pretty much owns the rights to Satanism since Satanism was started by the CoS in the first place.

The CoS actually is the only Satanic organization with credible stature. The Temple of Set and others like them, have been created and sustained by members who have either been kicked out of the CoS who have not lived up to their social standards or who have left the CoS for their own reasons. either way, no real loss.

On the contrary, the CoS has a very firm foundation--firm enough that members in the CoS are more productive in advancing Satanism in their own individual way than members in self-proclaimed "Satanic" organizations do in groups. As Peter Gilmore said, "those who attempt to imitate us, usually discover that our shoes are far too big to fill." this has proven true even for the Temple of set.


\m/

Don't get me wrong, when I first discovered the CoS it was basically my introduction to my growth within the left hand path.  I think their literature (LaVey's works) sets the premise to what I believe Satanism to be.  So I would agree that they used to have a firm foundation, but I argue the consistency.  Sure there are books here and there but they Don't have the impact of earlier works.  


It would be nice to see what you described in your earlier post of more involvement with such things, but I dont believe there is any feasibility today.  We won't see another Anton Zander LaVey.  We won't get the leadership from the CoS that once was until something shifts within their organization to be more impactful as it used to be.


I would love for it to be there and wish the CoS the best... Believe me.. I just don't see it now.



JicNikk Member
JicNikk Jan 5 '16
My mind was never in distress over it, I just don't see any sort of realistic approach to it.  Back in the day LaVey would tote taxation of churches and present himself to the media willingly because he was such an intriguing figure and he was remarkably charismatic in light of the messages he was sending.  I would love to see that again, and hopefully we will get another figurehead.  Anton was someone that basically powered through the Satanic Panic and cleared a path for us that I feel we can enjoy that sort of freedom from religious persecution.  It's still not a completely clear path because there are still religious dickheads wanting to wag their finger at us while collecting the contributions from their sheep, but it was a significant start.


Bringing politics into the mix is tricky though when you use Satanism.  Especially when you have a divide like we do between Atheistic and Theistic.  The RHP people  have a consensus that for the majority in America, there is one God and in him they trust.  It's a concept that is slowly dwindling away, and I thank LaVey for his contributions to that.. but it stopped with him.


Next you have a pretty broad scope of Satanists with political views all over the place.  Uniting them into one party is a bit unrealistic.  What might be more feasible is for an openly known Satanist who has studied Political Science, Law, Economics etc to somehow hold a government position (which is still a stretch) and grow a political career to become a well known figurehead that LHP practitioners can follow behind.  From there.. who knows.  Mitt Romney was Mormon and a Republican.  JFK was Catholic and a Democrat.  GWB was a Methodist and a Republican.  Bill Clinton was a Baptist later turned Methodist and a Democrat.  My point is parties aren't really geared towards religious affiliations specifically, and it would be a pretty hard pitch to people to affiliate their religious choices as such.

Zach Black Owner
Zach Black Jan 5 '16
@Serpentis666
If their members are producing content that promotes Satanism then they do need to give the CoS credit considering that CoS pretty much owns the rights to Satanism since Satanism was started by the CoS in the first place.

The CoS actually is the only Satanic organization with credible stature. The Temple of Set and others like them, have been created and sustained by members who have either been kicked out of the CoS who have not lived up to their social standards or who have left the CoS for their own reasons. either way, no real loss.

On the contrary, the CoS has a very firm foundation--firm enough that members in the CoS are more productive in advancing Satanism in their own individual way than members in self-proclaimed "Satanic" organizations do in groups. As Peter Gilmore said, "those who attempt to imitate us, usually discover that our shoes are far too big to fill." this has proven true even for the Temple of set.


\m/

Are you fucking joking? LOL. The CoS died with LaVey. And you mention that Satanists that produce content promoting Satanism need to give credit to the CoS. Wow. Just......wow. Although the CoS will not recognize any Satanic organization other than their own, ALL Satanists must pay a toll fee eh to the CoS. So with that reasoning I should give credit to the CoS for everything I have created or done? 


Why. I was a member for 16 years and had no support, paid for news letters I never got and was ignored. Why the fuck would anyone give credit to them? Oh, because you say they basically invented Satanism. Well, that is completely idiotic first off. And , even if you believe that nonsense then it would have been LaVey who created it. Guess what, LaVey died in 1997. 


And saying other Satanic organizations are basically flunkies of the CoS is retarded. Can you put your head any further up Gilmores ass? I hope you brought some lipstick. Pucker up. 


ToS is strong and active. The Satanic Temple has gotten more media attention in the last 4 years than the CoS has done in 50 years. 


The CoS is defunct. It is nothing more now than a ' cool ' club taking suckers money in exchange for a red card. 


Another thing you might need to be educated on is the CoS tells its active members and admin who they can and can not be associated with. I know this from a admin that I have known for years told me that myself and about a dozen others are on a black list. If you associate with myself or anyone on that list you will be booted from the CoS. 


You should really get your facts straight before you post something so stupid that many here can come along and slap down. None of the remaining LaVey's want anything to do with the CoS. Gilmore was never suppose to be high priest . In a court of law it was decide that Blanche Barton was the inheritor of LaVey estate. Karla LaVey sued and lost. Blanche gave it to Gilmore because Gilmore supported her and Xerxes ( Erick Barton ) for nearly 3 years financially. 


The CoS is dead. You are suffering from delusion and idol worship. What you worship are not even idols.... lol. 

JicNikk Member
JicNikk Jan 6 '16

Quote from Zach Black @Serpentis666
If their members are producing content that promotes Satanism then they do need to give the CoS credit considering that CoS pretty much owns the rights to Satanism since Satanism was started by the CoS in the first place.

The CoS actually is the only Satanic organization with credible stature. The Temple of Set and others like them, have been created and sustained by members who have either been kicked out of the CoS who have not lived up to their social standards or who have left the CoS for their own reasons. either way, no real loss.

On the contrary, the CoS has a very firm foundation--firm enough that members in the CoS are more productive in advancing Satanism in their own individual way than members in self-proclaimed "Satanic" organizations do in groups. As Peter Gilmore said, "those who attempt to imitate us, usually discover that our shoes are far too big to fill." this has proven true even for the Temple of set.


\m/

Are you fucking joking? LOL. The CoS died with LaVey. And you mention that Satanists that produce content promoting Satanism need to give credit to the CoS. Wow. Just......wow. Although the CoS will not recognize any Satanic organization other than their own, ALL Satanists must pay a toll fee eh to the CoS. So with that reasoning I should give credit to the CoS for everything I have created or done? 


Why. I was a member for 16 years and had no support, paid for news letters I never got and was ignored. Why the fuck would anyone give credit to them? Oh, because you say they basically invented Satanism. Well, that is completely idiotic first off. And , even if you believe that nonsense then it would have been LaVey who created it. Guess what, LaVey died in 1997. 


And saying other Satanic organizations are basically flunkies of the CoS is retarded. Can you put your head any further up Gilmores ass? I hope you brought some lipstick. Pucker up. 


ToS is strong and active. The Satanic Temple has gotten more media attention in the last 4 years than the CoS has done in 50 years. 


The CoS is defunct. It is nothing more now than a ' cool ' club taking suckers money in exchange for a red card. 


Another thing you might need to be educated on is the CoS tells its active members and admin who they can and can not be associated with. I know this from a admin that I have known for years told me that myself and about a dozen others are on a black list. If you associate with myself or anyone on that list you will be booted from the CoS. 


You should really get your facts straight before you post something so stupid that many here can come along and slap down. None of the remaining LaVey's want anything to do with the CoS. Gilmore was never suppose to be high priest . In a court of law it was decide that Blanche Barton was the inheritor of LaVey estate. Karla LaVey sued and lost. Blanche gave it to Gilmore because Gilmore supported her and Xerxes ( Erick Barton ) for nearly 3 years financially. 


The CoS is dead. You are suffering from delusion and idol worship. What you worship are not even idols.... lol. 

... I believe that is what we call a "Mic Drop"
JicNikk Member
JicNikk Jan 6 '16

Quote from Serpentis666
Quote from Zach Black @Serpentis666
If their members are producing content that promotes Satanism then they do need to give the CoS credit considering that CoS pretty much owns the rights to Satanism since Satanism was started by the CoS in the first place.

The CoS actually is the only Satanic organization with credible stature. The Temple of Set and others like them, have been created and sustained by members who have either been kicked out of the CoS who have not lived up to their social standards or who have left the CoS for their own reasons. either way, no real loss.

On the contrary, the CoS has a very firm foundation--firm enough that members in the CoS are more productive in advancing Satanism in their own individual way than members in self-proclaimed "Satanic" organizations do in groups. As Peter Gilmore said, "those who attempt to imitate us, usually discover that our shoes are far too big to fill." this has proven true even for the Temple of set.


\m/

Are you fucking joking? LOL. The CoS died with LaVey. And you mention that Satanists that produce content promoting Satanism need to give credit to the CoS. Wow. Just......wow. Although the CoS will not recognize any Satanic organization other than their own, ALL Satanists must pay a toll fee eh to the CoS. So with that reasoning I should give credit to the CoS for everything I have created or done? 


Why. I was a member for 16 years and had no support, paid for news letters I never got and was ignored. Why the fuck would anyone give credit to them? Oh, because you say they basically invented Satanism. Well, that is completely idiotic first off. And , even if you believe that nonsense then it would have been LaVey who created it. Guess what, LaVey died in 1997. 


And saying other Satanic organizations are basically flunkies of the CoS is retarded. Can you put your head any further up Gilmores ass? I hope you brought some lipstick. Pucker up. 


ToS is strong and active. The Satanic Temple has gotten more media attention in the last 4 years than the CoS has done in 50 years. 


The CoS is defunct. It is nothing more now than a ' cool ' club taking suckers money in exchange for a red card. 


Another thing you might need to be educated on is the CoS tells its active members and admin who they can and can not be associated with. I know this from a admin that I have known for years told me that myself and about a dozen others are on a black list. If you associate with myself or anyone on that list you will be booted from the CoS. 


You should really get your facts straight before you post something so stupid that many here can come along and slap down. None of the remaining LaVey's want anything to do with the CoS. Gilmore was never suppose to be high priest . In a court of law it was decide that Blanche Barton was the inheritor of LaVey estate. Karla LaVey sued and lost. Blanche gave it to Gilmore because Gilmore supported her and Xerxes ( Erick Barton ) for nearly 3 years financially. 


The CoS is dead. You are suffering from delusion and idol worship. What you worship are not even idols.... lol. 

I can now see why the CoS want's nothing to do with a hubristic vulgarian.


1. Idol worship? That's a bit of a stretch don't you think?


2. I'm currently not an active member of the CoS only a supporter until I have the 200 dollars to spare.


3.I'm aware that the Temple of Set is active and still standing no news there. However, To say they are strong is again, a bit of a stretch. Michael Aquino is a delusional spook who believes he can talk to otherworldly entities such as Beelzebub,Leviathan and even Satan himself and the so called "Satanists" who believe his claims are also delusional spooks. They're also relatively small too. So yeah "strong" is a stretch. They do have a fancy website though--i'll give them that.


4.Support for what? Anton LaVey wanted members to carve out their own successes and not rely on support from other members and the church when times get too tough for them. Is that why you're so against the CoS now? Because they wouldn't hold your hand or you didn't receive special attention?


5.The CoS is defunct? Then why be so angry about leaving or being kicked out of a defunct religion? Also, if the CoS is as you say "defunct" why did you remain in the defunct CoS for 16 whole years? And you're sitting there, telling me, I have my head up Peter Gilmores' ass? You had yours up his for 16 whole years apparently. If you remained in a defunct religion for 16 whole years without doing anything to revive it then how can you even call yourself a satanist to begin with? Either you're the dumbest person ever or just incompetent, regardless, as I said earlier--no real loss. 


You're clearly just another one of the "flunkies" as you say.


\m/

I would say idol worship in the sense that you may be putting that red membership card on the pedestal so to speak.  


It would seem you have a misdirected grandeur as to what Zach is trying to tell you.  You made the claim that anything creatively made that is Satanic should belong to the CoS.. that's like saying all Orange farmers should only sell to Florida Oranges regardless of their location or cost of growth because they hold an orange distribution label.  It's simply just ignorant.


Being apart of something and losing faith in it should not be considered being up anyone's ass.  In fact it would be a sense of waking up.  Honestly too you should be careful about how you word that concept too since there are a lot of people within this network that walked away from their moral ambiguities to become Satanists.  The paths to their end goals are no less legitimate than yours.  The difference being now that you seem to follow a Shepard in a herd like mentality.  I could be wrong because I don't know you, but judging on how you drone on about Peter Gilmore, it would seem you almost have a RHP sort of mentality towards the CoS.  


Lastly,  it's one thing to place your ideals in your basket.. it's something completely different when you start smashing your fruit from your basket in others'.  It's being too familiar and a bit unwelcome.  Please stop your proselytizing and get over it.  Or better yourself and become the leadership that the CoS desperately needs instead on riding on the coat tails of someone else.

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