Could false religions be a good thing? | Forum

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Guess who
Guess who Oct 9 '14
The specific types of philosophies and religions I am talking about here are ones that promise their adherents an afterlife, or another form of immaterial/spiritual payment for good behavior.

Within the "atheist community," it is common for members to regard dogmatic and life denying religions with contempt. They claim that the delusional belief systems are holding humanity back socially, hampering scientific progress, and immorally manipulating people to waste their lives striving for a nonexistent reward.

But is it truly such a bad thing? It could possibly actually be constructive to society; by separating and "capturing" the less intelligent/useful people, and putting them to good use by giving them false nonexistent goals to work towards, causing less of a need for actual (physical) compensation and material objects in general.

This isn't an actual view that I hold, as I still think that a irreligious and scientifically correct society would probably prosper more due to it's realistic understanding of things, and because belief in a false worldview doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a person's worth, but the idea that such misleading ideas could be a positive thing is interesting food for thought.
The Forum post is edited by Guess who Oct 9 '14
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rigosantana3
rigosantana3 Oct 9 '14
Yes. This is why religion is so important among the poor and the uneducated. Religions have been founded to promote order and uniformity amongst people who otherwise would be killing each other. Study the origins of Islam for example (from their own account, one of the few religions that will admit this). It was founded to bring together tribes of varying belief systems that were at constant war. That is why it incorporated the uniform method of prayer, direction, language, and dress.
You are 100% correct, religion keeps the stupid placated and behaved with the threat of judgment from a guy who is conveniently unavailable.
The Forum post is edited by rigosantana3 Oct 9 '14
Guess who
Guess who Oct 9 '14
I was thinking of it more in terms of work and payment rather than maintaining order, but you bring up a good point. The poor will have less desire to fight their way out of it if they are told poverty is good. Keeping them in a complacent state of ignorance.
rigosantana3
rigosantana3 Oct 9 '14
On that point, churches do have their members work for free in various administrative positions, and of course, they demand payment every week. They preach that their particular flavor of deity will reward them after death, which once again, how convenient that the dead cant confirm this. Essentially, when one pays tithes to a church, they are paying for a theater ticket. Churches put on a show every week. There is singing, storytelling, and a lecture. you are paying for a play.
johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Oct 10 '14
As Satanists, we should be glad for the existence of Christianity (and other "false religions"). Think about it: Why is Satanism and Satanists so effective? Precisely because the behavior of others are predictable, and tend to conform to a certain set of publicly known/available rules.


When you make a rule public, you can either be a goody two shoes, or be above those who follow the rules by finding loopholes or manipulating it.


For example, in Satanic Lesser Magick, one can reasonably predict the desired stimulus for someone else based on the rules that he/she follows. e.g., instead of outright revenge for an offense committed by say, a Christian, one can instead very publicly forgive him, and in the process gain credit and respect for yourself, because you are so "Christ-like".


Or you can suppress certain behaviors from others by using their rules against them. e.g., a lot of people won't dare to say, sleep with your wife, lest they are caught and publicly humiliated in front of their friends who share the same belief system. So you can reasonable expect a "good Christian" to not do so, with zero investment from yourself in ensuring the outcome.


We should be thanking Christians everyday. Their doctrine does a lot of favors for us. Plus, we Satanists are not bound by the same rules (or any rules really), so we can be more effective in achieving our goals by manipulating their rules against them.


Imagine you are a general of an army. You can't be called a great general if you have no walls to siege, and no castles to conquer. The existence of your "enemies" is a boon to you, for through crushing them, you gain glory and fame.


If everyone was an atheist, or if everyone was a rational thinking scientist, we'd have NOTHING to base our predictions about the outcome of certain stimuli in Lesser Magic on. Because every single person will have wildly different worldviews. When that happens, Satanic Lesser Magic is done for. No more twisting people around your fingers, because you won't know how to twist them.

The Forum post is edited by johnnywatts Oct 10 '14
EzrelT Chapter Head
EzrelT Oct 10 '14
Jonny, your point is sufficiently captured in The ninth Satanic Statement when viewed the other way round. :)
Berardo Rodriguez Member
Berardo Rodriguez Oct 10 '14
"Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it  in business all these years". I don't understand how somebody calls himself a " Laveyan Satanist" and contradicts himself by saying that "satanism needs Christianity, and has to give thanks for christianism". I personally know that Christianity is full of money suckers, and the only good thing  they have for me is their holy scriptures to clean up my  pupu , just holy paper to go to the wash room to wipe out  my holy a a a a. 
EzrelT Chapter Head
EzrelT Oct 11 '14
The core of Satanism is founded on Fact, Reason and Rationality; and absolutely not the sentiments of extremism, fanaticism or bigotry. The fact as codified by Dr. Anton Szandor Lavey in the Ninth Satanic statement posits that there will be no Christianity without Satanism, or Satanism without Christianity. The import of Reason in this regard positions Satanism on a pedestal of advantage over traditional religions owing to its pragmatic posture that insists on validation of beliefs.

Rationality on the other hand infuses Satanism with an ambience that distinctively sets it apart from faith-based religions. The rational approach of Satanism duly objectifies its philosophical workings in a way that strictly places emphasis on "what is", and what constitutes truth. It therefore has no place for personal views which add no value whatsoever to its advancement, especially when same creates an ideological burden that makes Satanism no different from traditional religions that are so much despised for their approach and practices. In other words, as Satanists, our thought processes must rise above sentiments generated by the trivial agenda of fanaticism and bigotry because we constitute and represent a whole new way of thinking that defies convention. That, I think, is what sets us apart from the crowd.
The Forum post is edited by EzrelT Oct 11 '14
JamesSTL Chapter Head
JamesSTL Oct 11 '14

“Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.”  - Napoleon


Fun exercise: Knowing that a person has faith in fiction is knowledge of a weakness possessed by said person. How can this be usefully applied by the Satanic operative?


"There's a sucker born every minute." - David Hannum

johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Oct 11 '14

Quote from demonio "Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it  in business all these years". I don't understand how somebody calls himself a " Laveyan Satanist" and contradicts himself by saying that "satanism needs Christianity, and has to give thanks for christianism". I personally know that Christianity is full of money suckers, and the only good thing  they have for me is their holy scriptures to clean up my  pupu , just holy paper to go to the wash room to wipe out  my holy a a a a. 

Way to present rational thought brah. Saying the Holy Bible is only good for wiping your ass may be funny, but it presents no real thought of value.

Berardo Rodriguez Member
Berardo Rodriguez Oct 13 '14
Babylon: I think I misunderstood the first line of the 5th paragraph of the post of jonnywatt  that says " we should be thanking christians every day" , I couldn't swallow up that "we" as a satanist,  on the other hand it touched my memory when the christians tortured and killed my father,  they raped  my mother and my 11 years old little sister, they stoled  our land , and cast us out of the community,  they tortured me and put me in jail , all because we were heretics . Then it came to my mind how the christians came almost 530 years ago to  Latin America continent and did all the atrocities they did to my grand grand grand fathers, and we just put the other cheek. I feel that my post was not even enough to express my self,  but I thank you my satanic friends for giving me the non sentimental focus to see the real Satanism,  I appreciate it.
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