What do you think of vegetarianism?
I'm not entirely sure. If the consumption of animals is unnecessary, I would support it, though it might not work for everyone. I am constantly told by advocates that "going vegetarian is easy," and that "nobody needs meat," but it doesn't seem very realistic to make such general claims. I very much doubt that I would personally do well on such a diet, given that I weigh around 96 pounds no matter how much I eat. If I am made of flesh, doesn't it make sense to consume flesh?
Also, is the ability to feel pain the only criterion for making harm unethical? I mean, even if most plants don't feel pain, do they not have a disposition towards survival and reproduction that (from a biocentric point of view) is "unethical" to destroy?
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Juice
Nov 22 '14
Sure, there are alternatives, but animals just taste so damn good. Humans, naturally, are omnivores; so it's natural to consume animals.
In many developed countries there is definitely an overabundance of food. Slaughtering animals in a seldom manner would be great, but it's a capitalized industry. I'm not saying vegetarianism is bad, but a handful of people becoming vegetarian, even in the thousands, isn't going to slow down the meat industry, not one bit.
In many developed countries there is definitely an overabundance of food. Slaughtering animals in a seldom manner would be great, but it's a capitalized industry. I'm not saying vegetarianism is bad, but a handful of people becoming vegetarian, even in the thousands, isn't going to slow down the meat industry, not one bit.
Guess who
Nov 22 '14
Genetically we aren't made to eat meat, our teeth aren't built for it and neither is our system this is why we have to cook meat instead of eating it raw in blood off the bone like other animals.
Why aren't our teeth made for eating meat? Most people eat meat, and it works just fine with their teeth.
Well, we could eat it raw, some people do, but it increases the risk of health problems. The fact that we "have" to cook meat doesn't mean that we aren't built to eat meat altogether; it just means that we are better off eating cooked meat.
You can judge if a creature is made to eat a certain thing by it's desire to eat that thing. For example, You can tell that humans are organotrophs because we desire to eat organic things. Regardless of the actual health effects, trying to eat like a lithotroph would violate our nature. As juice stated, meat tastes very good to almost everyone, and nothing that we are not built to eat should taste that good.
Guess who
Nov 22 '14
I am not vegan or vegetarian, I eat meat everyday. As far as eating meat raw, okay, yeah if its off the bone already, but try taking down a deer and then just start trying to eat at it, good luck.
Whether or not it's off the bone is kind of irrelevant to the claim that we are not omnivores. How we consume meat isn't related to if we are meant to consume meat (in other words).
Guess who
Nov 22 '14
To the OP, I would have to ask why you would support vegetarianism if the only reason for not eating meat is that it is un-necessary? The choice is yours either way, isn't it? You enjoy it or you don't.
I view being a vegetarian or vegan as being little more than "food politics".
That said, I'm not going to slag people for their food choices as I was a vegetarian for a couple of decades and an over the top, annoying, hard-core vegan for about 5 years, but presently I question the agenda. I still don't eat red meat, and haven't for about 35 years, but it's for medical reasons, and nothing more.
I don't exclude "vegan" dishes from my diet at all, but the difference is that it is merely a desired dish and not one ruled by politics or the "passion of the cause" mentality.
Yeah, I suppose saying "I enjoy meat more than I dislike animal suffering" works...but I am saying that in the case that meat is not necessary to consume for either nutritional or psychological reasons, then the minimization of animal suffering would probably be of more value to me than the act of eating meat.
Guess who
Nov 22 '14
Cooking isn't natural, it's man made invention, so it's kind of relevant.
Humans are a part of nature. You know, "just another animal."
Mod Orgasmic Karmatic.
Nov 23 '14
I am constantly told by advocates that "going vegetarian is easy," and that "nobody needs meat," but it doesn't seem very realistic to make such general claims.
Flat out, I don't eat meat.. I will probably die or need some sort of transfusion. As it is, I don't eat much meat but I need the supplement of proteins and iron that is in it to survive.
I am horrendously anemic. To the point where, even on iron supplements three times a day (an amount, by the way, would poison a normal individual), do not raise my iron levels to the levels that it needs to be at. When I gave birth to my son and daughter, they had blood ready just in case I needed a transfusion. I bruise severely and easily and avoid getting scraped or cut because I don't know if my blood will congeal to stop the bleeding.
So, anyone who tells me that eating meat is not a necessary thing, I laugh at because they are talking out of their asses.
Guess who
Nov 23 '14
My mother had a similar problem. She was deficient in iron and some other nutrient which I forgot the name of, no matter how many supplements she took. She now eats chicken occasionally.
I am constantly told by advocates that "going vegetarian is easy," and that "nobody needs meat," but it doesn't seem very realistic to make such general claims.
Flat out, I don't eat meat.. I will probably die or need some sort of transfusion. As it is, I don't eat much meat but I need the supplement of proteins and iron that is in it to survive.
I am horrendously anemic. To the point where, even on iron supplements three times a day (an amount, by the way, would poison a normal individual), do not raise my iron levels to the levels that it needs to be at. When I gave birth to my son and daughter, they had blood ready just in case I needed a transfusion. I bruise severely and easily and avoid getting scraped or cut because I don't know if my blood will congeal to stop the bleeding.
So, anyone who tells me that eating meat is not a necessary thing, I laugh at because they are talking out of their asses.
Isn't there increasing evidence suggesting that supplements aren't very effective?
Member Berardo Rodriguez
Nov 23 '14
A lot of people in a lot of different countries, because of their poverty they don't pay attention to diets, they eat whatever they can eat to survive, they don't care what the vegetarian religionists say about eating meat or veggies , if that is healthy or not. I used to visit so many poor communities, that the persons shared with me their only piece of racoon or snake or crow or scan or dog or cat or armadillo or any piece of meat they had to survive, to keep themselves and their little ones alive, I have eaten any kind of meat cooked or raw , I don't care if my teeth and stomach will digest it or I'll throw it up, to me keeping alive is the most important thing whether eating unhealthy meat or roots. It is very pleasant to see the faces of hundreds of people eating a piece of cat meat or any other animal or eating leaves, barks and roots to survive for various reasons ,and not looking at them dying because such a holy book , such and such religious doctor says different. I enjoy eating any kind of meat and any kind of vegetable , I don't do it because of religious ( Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Adventists, animal protectors, plants criminals, etc.) groups or their stupid commandments say so, I've done it before to survive, and I do it now because I like it. Until this moment I haven't been sick for a piece of meat I ate or for a good glass of animal's blood I drunk. I'm not a carnivorous nor a vegetarian, I eat anything that has life in itself to keep me alive, I eat worms, reptiles, insects, birds, mammals animals, sea food, fruits, vegetables, grains of any kind. I've eaten garbage and healthy food, and the most important thing it's that I am still alive and healthy, I'm ready for any dish you put in front of me, therefore, you can invite me to your home ,and I won't disappoint you by not eating what you kindly share with me.
Anna
Nov 23 '14
Genetically we aren't made to eat meat
Well... this is interesting. Care to elaborate on that? It would be f*cking mind-blowing.
our teeth can eat meat only because we cook it
Speak for yourself. If your teeth are in good condition, you can still eat raw meat, even if it's not separated from the bone, in spite of the evolutionary changes.
try taking down a deer and then just start trying to eat at it, good luck.
And how did people eat meat before they learnt how to make fire? Or do you think there have always been cook stoves or microwave ovens around like in "The Flintstones" movie?
Also, is the ability to feel pain the only criterion for making harm unethical?
Unethical? Seriously? This is just the sanctimonious propaganda of animal lovers and some celebrities. What's so "unethical" about one animal eating another one? This is how the world works. And guess what, from the biological point of view we are just animals.
Mod Orgasmic Karmatic.
Nov 23 '14
My mother had a similar problem. She was deficient in iron and some other nutrient which I forgot the name of, no matter how many supplements she took. She now eats chicken occasionally. Isn't there increasing evidence suggesting that supplements aren't very effective?Honestly, I don't know of any studies suggesting that iron supplements aren't very effective in controlling something like anemia. There are several reasons why it might not be effective depending on the individual.
Some cannot take iron supplements because it makes them brutally ill. Other causes run along the line of a person just not regularly taking their iron or diets that restrict how much the body absorbs the supplement.
I can't imagine how much iron your mother is obtaining by eating chicken sometimes considering the average chicken breast only contains about 1.1 mg of iron in a serving. I suppose if she ate a lot of chicken in one sitting it might help but your best bet for deriving iron from meat would be to aim for red meat. Eating chicken every once in awhile would not right severe anemia. But I digress, I do not know her or her experience with anemia.
Member Epicurus
Dec 5 '14
I was seeing the forums and came across this topic regarding vegans. I am going through a time where I try to shed off some kilos before my tummy becomes bigger than it already is and decide if I should actually take meat or not. The biggest problem in meat for me is the capitalism. This means the mass production where I saw many videos of animal cruelty in various forms and practically even for mass production to occur, the meat is full of injections and chemicals that are harmful to one's health. Aside the fact that the cruelty and terrible state these animals are being kept in. I think that the animal can somewhat be more 'friendly' than humans sometimes therefore I'm avoiding eating meat and trying to take my final decision about this.
The Forum post is edited by Epicurus Dec 5 '14
nith
Dec 6 '14
Without becoming a hunter gatherer/ farmer yourself, it will be pretty hard to avoid any of the treatments and infections you talked about.
As for for putting on weight and what food to avoid or limit to fix that, it is more complex than just avoiding meat. I still eat some red meat but very little as it seems not to suit my system. On the other hand fish and white meats I have often. Mainly I avoid fast foods, white breads and cereals as well as limit my sugar intake.
If you go vegan just for the health idea then you will find yourself battling to keep up certain health levels but you can drop a lot of weight.
PS; If you are worried about the moral base and want to apply that then you can cut out just about all chocolate. Much of the worlds cocoa beans comes from the one of the main child slave trade areas in Africa.
Chapter Head johnnywatts
Dec 21 '14
Genetically we aren't made to eat meat, our teeth aren't built for it and neither is our system this is why we have to cook meat instead of eating it raw in blood off the bone like other animals.
Erm..., yes we can eat meat right off the bone, sushi being an example.
Before the discovery of fire, we were already eating meat.
Chapter Head johnnywatts
Dec 21 '14
Without becoming a hunter gatherer/ farmer yourself, it will be pretty hard to avoid any of the treatments and infections you talked about.
As for for putting on weight and what food to avoid or limit to fix that, it is more complex than just avoiding meat. I still eat some red meat but very little as it seems not to suit my system. On the other hand fish and white meats I have often. Mainly I avoid fast foods, white breads and cereals as well as limit my sugar intake.
If you go vegan just for the health idea then you will find yourself battling to keep up certain health levels but you can drop a lot of weight.
PS; If you are worried about the moral base and want to apply that then you can cut out just about all chocolate. Much of the worlds cocoa beans comes from the one of the main child slave trade areas in Africa.
Or most clothing really. Or consumer technology like smart phones. Or heck, anything you ever need to do in modern life besides live in a cave.
ExequySummonings
Dec 22 '14
While I respect individual sovereignty, I enjoy meat myself. I go for the real deal and buy from local farms. No GMO's. no hormones, etc...just as nature intended.
Storm
Feb 3 '15
When I was 16 I went veg. I ended up getting really sick from poor nutrition,so I had to go back to eating meat. When I was 19-20 I went back to my veg ways and again it didnt work out for me and I was taking vitamins and eating better. From 21- to now im age 23 I am back to eating meat.
It is hard to go on to that diet if you are a meat eater, Its a whole other food world kind of like being on a diet. Thankfully there are meat alternatives, I can give you that light without being a complete downer!
Id say for you to maybe check out a health food store talk to the workers about it,see what foods to try and gradually make your way into going veg, if you just jump into it, it can lead to a fail in your health like me. Im not against going veg or vegetarians or vegans or people who eat meat, whatever is the best for you...go for it! :)
Good luck! If you have any more questions feel free to PM me and I can send you recipes and sites to check out.
It is hard to go on to that diet if you are a meat eater, Its a whole other food world kind of like being on a diet. Thankfully there are meat alternatives, I can give you that light without being a complete downer!
Id say for you to maybe check out a health food store talk to the workers about it,see what foods to try and gradually make your way into going veg, if you just jump into it, it can lead to a fail in your health like me. Im not against going veg or vegetarians or vegans or people who eat meat, whatever is the best for you...go for it! :)
Good luck! If you have any more questions feel free to PM me and I can send you recipes and sites to check out.
