Prove Me Wrong: Magick and Psychology are the Same | Forum

OK, to clarify before responding, the key there is "supernatural" and "beyond human imagination"? 

Are you saying that if you have a piece of cheese and your desire is to eat the cheese and you do eat the cheese that this cheese eating would be a supernatural act because you got what you wanted?

Even that such cheese eating is beyond your imagination?

I see the supernatural as aspects of a science which hasn't yet been properly quantified, but believe one day it will be. I also see psychology as a science but don't believe they are of the same science.

I see psychology as something which exists within our minds but which effects can be seen within or outside of our minds and bodies.

I see magic as something which exists within or outside of our minds and body.

But I see your point Hartnell... Did the magic start within the mind and could it be one day quantified under the heading of psychology? Maybe... But!

I would argue that magic also falls under Physics... So the only way I could assume that it is Psychology would be to assume that Magic originated in the Psychology of the Mind of Conscious Energy. And because I do believe that energy is conscious, that is actually plausible if you want to describe it like that.

Fuck that hurt!

@Fratar: At what point do you depend on the supernatural vs er... when ya don't?

@Shadowlover: My brain is larger than my skull. A notepad extends my memory.

But wait, there's more:

@Frater:

What is the subjective universe?

What is the objective universe?

How does witchcraft (as you say) balance between them?

@Shadowlover: Will having knowledge of physics help me win a chess game?

@Frater: You're talking about reprentations in the NLP sense (mental images). I think I'm getting the gist of where you're going with this. 

You didn't define either. Would you mind trying again maybe starting with something like 'The objective universe is..."

How do you tell the difference between the two? How do you know which one is which?

And how does magick differ from any kind of creative activity where you first have to imagine a design and then build it? Say, a designing and building a house. Would that also balance between the two as well as magick?

How does that relate to my question? I'm trying to understand your view, so if you don't mind, please answer the question I asked. If I missed something, then feel free to clarify.

Edit: My bad. It does relate to my second question. So, meh ;) Onward!

What I was trying to figure out was if creative activity balances the subjective and objective universes like 'witchcraft.' The important part is the balancing not the creativity. So, does creative activity balance the two witchcraft?

Also, how do you know the difference between the two?

Thanks.

What if you learned a different meaning for these symbols than somebody else, would they still work?

@Frater. Speak for yourself - magic is not beyond my imagination. Once upon a time nobody checked to see if the world was round because the concept was so far beyond their imagination that it was deemed ridiculous. Scientists now see assuming the world is round as a completely normal train of thought.

@Hartnell. Are you playing the chess game upside down?

@Hartnell. What if you learned a different meaning for these symbols than somebody else, would they still work?

With symbols - No. A symbol is designed to invoke an emotion in a person and that emotion is dependent on your perception of that symbol.

With objects - Yes and no. If I was given a bracelet for good luck, but unbeknownst to me it was rabid with a century old curse, how it affected me would depend on whether or not my belief in the good luck was stronger than the bad luck energy imprint which was infused into the bracelet.

@Shadowlover: Nope, ordinary chess rules.

Are younwondering why I asked.the question?

@Hartnell. Okay, yes. Why did you ask the question. Physics wouldn't be something I would look into if I wanted to win a game of chess.

@Shadowlove: I have a similar understanding of symbols.

About chess: You said: I would argue that magick falls under physics...

Consider that the chess peices can be made of many different materials, including electrons on a computer screen, and the rules for their movement certainly isnt newtonian. If you wanted to use magick to win a chess game, how would that fall under physics?

@Frater: What do you mean by 'beyond imagination'?

@Frater: This was a recent diagram from the theory of thought blog. Is this what you meant by balancing?