Religion: A Matter Of Believing Or Of Doing? | Forum

Religion- re-ligare, i.e. re- (again) + ligare or "to reconnect," in other words a doing a becoming. You know as in the Great Work, again there is the implication of doing. What do ideals or values have to do with anything, let alone with the doing of the Great Work or the doing of certain things to achieve all represented by the appellation "Great Work", with emphasis on the Work as in doing?  Ergo beliefs are arbitrary, as are ideals or values that have nothing to do with reconnecting again; religion.

Are you kidding me, with all the talk of modern/laveyans, spiritualist, theistic and so forth Satanists levelling the phrase 'pseudo Satanist' at any one who aren't with their particular form of Satanism? I don't think you know what you are talking about, infantilism is based on the character of an infant, does that make infantilism a religion?  Satanism may be about knowledge, but individual Satanists tend to have very little knowledge of anything, and no, memorizing and repeating does not count as knowledge, it's just that memorizing information from this or that source, storing the information for later repeating to impress friends, peers on how much information was consumed. Perfect example, "being your own god", Satanists are always throwing that phrase around. Tell me without resorting to repeating stored information what exactly is the meaning of that phrase? To be honest all that amounts to is real delusions of grandeur, other than that it means nothing in that it has no meaning, it's only empty words spoken to feel and appear special and impressive.

Even still, being "your own god' implies a doing. I thought you said religion isn't about doing nor believing, as 'I am my own god' is a belief.

The reason for that is because both groups are the heads and tails of the same coin and the ignorant are always hypocrites. Again, knowledge is accompanied with doing, or applying what you know towards doing the great work. You just said yourself occultism is a doing and when used by religions it still makes it a doing. Religion isn't about posturing, it's about realigning which requires doing, no matter how you look at it, or no matter how many books of information you may have consumed. Have you ever heard the saying, a little goes a long way? The same can be applied to so much word/source consumption, instead of relying on what the papacy have to say, why not gain your own understanding....if capable of doing so that is. 

Yes, and those western Satanists/Occultists are well out of touch with existence. in fact the only existence I know them to be in touch with is the existence of their own myopia and self righteousness thinking they are special because they have read loads of books by their favorite pundit; by the way, have you noticed how in order to fill up say 300+ pages they say the same exact thing in different ways, they repeat themselves in many ways after the first few pages? Anyway, I know beliefs aren't confined to just religion.

You still haven't given me a clear defined meaning of that phrase, "your own god" without resorting to repeating the words of letters men or peers who themselves repeat the words of the letters men. To be accurate Satanists have yet to be seen seeking after knowledge, like I said filling up on a lot of undigested information is not knowledge. Would you say that having information about cats is the same as having knowledge of them, if all you are doing is consuming, storing and repeating in a paraphrased version the information about cats?  Information on is not knowledge of. You sound like you're trying to preach to the choir, of course I know either you are or you aren't. And yet the words and such of Satanists are always either implicating or explicating that dichotomy of "true" or "false Satanism, no wonder when they don't relate to the real world as you claim. They relate to a fantasy world of bombastic pundit worship, of consensus and of ignorant myopia and of being unable to tell belief/information from knowledge, you cant say this isn't so as I have seen this for many years online, as well as off.

"Educated people don't discriminates..."  Talk about belief. It's a belief that educated people don't discriminate and that goes back to what I said earlier on Satanists, or rather those who like to BELIEVE they're Satanists are not educated apart from being educated in what others think of the world, who they are as Satanists and how those others relate to the world, each other, the environment...how others relate to existence, they then stick all that in their heads, puff  up their chests and think they are that much smarter for it. Memorize. Store. Repeat. That's the cycle Satanists follow the same as the very ones they pretend, or shall we say believe they are different from, you know the stupid and weak masses/herd. Remember I called these poseurs of Satanism the herd on the black hand side, as it is exactly what they are and it's either pretense, if not out right delusional belief for them to think they are other than this.   

"Occultism is the practice of occult knowledge and don't have to be connected with religion as religions are ideologies... Occultists use their knowledge to obtain their desires"

Again, preaching to the choir. I just wish these pretend Occultists would stop aligning themselves with something they self righteously believe they are of. Again, I repeat, undigested information is not knowledge, binge consuming is not learning.

"Satanism is based on the values the character of Satan promotes."

Repeating stored information that doesn't answer the question what does it mean to be "your own god"?

People may use occult knowledge differently, but memorizing, storing then repeating information is not the same as having knowledge. why can't you get that through your alleged Danish head? Oh, that's right letters men haven't told you this so you can memorize, store repeat and repeat the process over.

"It means to be master of your own life and destiny..."

Repeated information. I said define it with out resorting to repeated stored information.

"Correct."

You say this and yet do just what I said memorize, store and repeat. Nothing you or any of the others have said so far is intelligently original, it's all repeats of what others have said.  smh.

"It's because of your delusions... Leave this group because you are not a Satanist and you waste your time here... Satanists don't care about your beliefs and what you think about them..."

See, always resorting to the "doody head" thing when your "knowledge" runs out, meaning when your repeated information has run dry, there is nothing left for you guys to say. Nothing I have said nor am saying is repeated memorized information, but all come from intellectual originality, it comes from true knowledge and wise understanding.

What is this delusion you keep referring to? Am I repeating memorized information pretending that it means I am smart? No, it's you guys that are doing that, talk about delusion. There is nothing more delusional as to think repeating memorized information makes for brilliance and that's why you suggest I leave, because you/they can't deal with the reality of real intelligence, as you guys are so used to spouting memorized information. I said I am, here to learn and I am learning, learning that you guys know jack shit about jack shit and so are the typical pretenders to knowledge.

The last time I checked I fit the satanic pattern, what's more I thought you said something like Satanists relate to the real world and in the real world there is no "true" or "false" Satanists?  do you even know what you are talking about?

Quote from FraterLuciferi "Nothing you or any of the others have said so far is intelligently original" 

It's because of your delusions... Leave this forum because you are not a Satanist and you waste your time here... Satanists don't care about your beliefs and what you think about them...

Quote from FraterLuciferi The problem is not "repeating memorised information" but rather that your repeatings are useless for pragmatic people...

And what is your definition of pragmatic, is it only the words that are useful are of those who brandish the letters after their names?  You know letters like

PHD?  You need intellectual giants to take you by the hand and lead you across the street.

While I agree that many people who claim to have original ideas are merely regurgitating the ideas of others,  sometimes we just simply agree with those ideas, and might have held those ideas even before reading or hearing about them.

In that case, it is almost impossible to state an idea that we agree with, but has been expressed by someone else, and make it sound original, since it's not an original idea, but one that we just happen to agree with.

Personally I've always had difficulty with accepting the "My own God," idea, because to me a "God," had total control of themselves, others as well as their environment.  I don't believe anyone can fit that definition.

On the other hand, one might interpret the "Be your own god," idea as one who is self actualized.  A person who works hard at taking the reigns of their own lives in their hands and struggles to be in total control of themselves as well as their immediate environment.  

Granted, such a person is still no "God," in any sense, because although they may be able to take control of their circumstances,  they cannot in anyway make significant changes to nature and reality merely from willing it,  as a real God (if one existed) could do.

The way I see it,  "Be your own God," is not to be taken literally, but figuratively.  It's basically an idea that a person will greatly benefit from taking control of their own lives,  and fighting as best as they can forces that might attempt to thwart their person-hood.

"sometimes we just simply agree with those ideas, and might have held those ideas even before reading or hearing about them."

Then in that case why not an augmented and expanded understanding? Case in point, when I state something it's in the light of my expanded understanding, especially if it's an idea already stated by some one else that I resonate with; to say, agree with implies saying yes through adopting the original sayer's  idea and saying to one's self, " I agree because the one saying this has brandished some meaningless letters after their names, so they must know what I am incapable of knowing, so i'll take the spoon and swallow what they are feeding me. After all they know better than I; they got letters after their name, can't argue with that, can't realize anything related myself, so why not."

On the "your own god" trip I'll say, then why use that terminology at all if not to bolster one's own narcissistic  fulfillment?  Any other word/phrase would work just as well, but people lacking any originality are incapable of realizing a different word that resonates more with where they are coming from, in which case they just repeat the phrase to continue puffing out their chests till it touches the clouds. Using that phrase only shows the one(s) that use it are only capable of repeating. You know I had recently realized the saying "monkey see. monkey do" is referring to all the "normal" people who are able to only imitate, copy repeat what some other monkey does, especially if the monkey has some letters after their name.

Quote from FraterLuciferi You have proven that you are not a Satanist and you will never get it, so I won't spend more time on delusional trolls like you. Goodbye.

Quote from FraterLuciferi The concepts of being your own god is based on the tree of knowledge mythology. By seeking knowledge you can control your own life and destiny and that's the values Satan promotes because the serpent was of Satan/Samael.

And so says those who obviously know better than you and is capable of knowing and there your capacity for knowledge ceases and so you have no choice but to repeat those words of they who know more than thou.

Also repeating Maxine's words and maybe perhaps Michael Ford's words also about the kabbalah does not define in an intellectually independent and therefore original way what the phrase mean, though it has no meaning.

"Satanism is a religion and all religions are based on values that a god character promotes..."

not true at all. If you are so brilliant you will know why I stated that and how it applies to your original statement.

"I have never stated that you are a 'fake Satanist' "

To say that a Satanist is not a Satanist because of their capability of having original ideas is implying fake/false Satanist allegation. I thought you are supposed to be intelligent? my point on the case of presumed intelligence on your part specifically is proven. you can not understand context.

"You assume that I repeating others but this in fact not the case if we relates to reality and you also experience that I contradict myself and this in fact natural because you are incapable of understanding context... You have stil not proven to be nothing more than a troll and the master of delusions..."

Looks like I'm going to have to spoon feed you on yet another point. okay, certain notables in the satanic community have equated Satan/Samael with the Tree of knowledge or the Qlippoth, now here is where your repeating comes in "The concepts of being your own god is based on the tree of knowledge mythology. By seeking knowledge you can control your own life and destiny and that's the values Satan promotes because the serpent was of Satan/Samael"  Ergo, exactly what Michael Ford had said, albeit you state it in a paraphrased version. In other words, he says this has correspondence or can be made to have correspondence with that and you say in a paraphrased fashion the same thing. Now for some real knowledge, Satan has nothing to  do with Sammael, the two are entirely distinct characters, one is from Christianity and the other is from Judaism, that's like making a square peg fit into a triangular hole just because they both are shapes.

"you also experience that I contradict myself"

Are you really lacking in comprehension as all that? sheesh, it's worse than I thought.  Time for spoon feeding...again. okay, you allege that I am not a Satanist for some reason; what I wager is because of my original ideas and so don't fit the mold of what you are used to in a "Satanist" i.e. original ideas, only to say that "smart Satanists" do not think in terms of who is a "true" or "false" Satanist, all the while presuming me to not be a Satanist because my intelligence is actually real and not pretend.

Who is deemed not a troll, those who tell each other all what the other wants to hear, expect to hear and repeat from the illustrious masters who hath letters after their names, who must know more than you and so is right on, in what they say because of those damned letters they always have to brandish for the very sake of their narcissistic fulfilment and to tell those like you, "Hey, I have letters after my name, so what I am saying right now should be stored in your bank, only to be repeated at a later time and to be accepted as what is, you puny mortal?"

Quote from FraterLuciferi            

Occultism is the practice of occult knowledge and don't have to be connected with religion as religions are ideologies...

Here is another case of you contradicting yourself, because before this you also said, "Occultism is simply the practice of okkult knowledge and can be used by any religions and paths including the great major religions."

Are you schizophrenic as well as... i'll be nice and say ignorant?

First you say occultism can be used by religion, only to say counter to that that religion don't have to use it. my question is why does it even matter to bring up that religion can use occult knowledge, only to later say religion don't have to use it? You can't have your cake and eat it too, or as Ayn Rand says, "You can't eat your cake and have it too".

Religions, that is to say all religions are not in fact based on values that god characters promote. Sikhism for example, then there's Buddhism, Hinduism, Scientology and so many more that I can name but can't think of just now. You don't "care with my original ideas because I seemingly don't have any letters after my name.

See, to say that I am not a Satanist simply because I am "not religious in nature", is creating the category of true Satanist (religious in nature) and a false Satanist (not religious in nature). I thought you said Satanism isn't about one true wayism? that doesn't debunk my claim, it only bolsters and adds credence to it.

Where do you think Christianity came from? Christianity has Hebrew roots and so Ha Satan figures into Christianity, an offshoot of Judaism in it's beginnings and just because Christianity ignorantly, or perhaps influenced by Manichaeism denigrated Ha-satan to fiend status, he was not originally and still is not as Christianity mistakes him as. In Judaism Satan is still an Angel, along with a particular class of angels who has a very specific function and is seen as still being and doing what he does in the service of Hashem. As for Sammael, in first century Judaism he was seen as merely the angel of death. Basically in Judaism, there are no fallen angels as angels have not the will to 'fall", they all remain in the loyal service to YHVH, despite what Michael ford have to say on the subject, apparently he doesn't know what he's talking about either. Ha-satan's role is to test and prosecute as per Judaism, ever hear of the phrase devil's advocate?  Well, it's derived from Judaism's Ha-satan concept. <----  ^^ real knowledge.

Angels and gods are different beings all together- angels are beings dependent on the worship of and who remain loyal to YHVH, gods on the other hand do not have such a relationship with their chief who is not exactly an infinite God as YHVH is understood  in Judaism. Again, real intelligent knowledge. From the actual roots of Satan, I already know about the character of satan and the basic values of Satanism what is and always  will be based in Christianity's perversion and misunderstanding of Satan from within their Hebraic/Judaic roots divorced from it's Manichaeism influence among other influences that hybridized and eventually became what we now know as Christianity. 

Are you starting to see now what some one who actually knows what they are talking about look like?

What are these values you keep mentioning? If a corruption of a corruption is supposed to be about "being your own god", then the more or less only value it would have is the value of the Great Work.  Try as you might  to divorce the corrupted concept of satan from it's corrupted Christian roots it can not be done. Satan can not be polished from the perspective of that myth, that would be like Clyde Barrow being made into a saint, or something because some one who think they know what they are talking about start a religion centered around Clyde Barrow, only to say, "Clyde isn't the villain law abiding citizens made him out to be, they are actually stupid primitive creatures who presume to know Clyde who is actually the paragon of values and virtue, who just got a bad rep by the ignorant public."  Sound familiar, as the spiel of Satanism of all stripes?

So, if you, or anyone call yourself a Satanist, then that implies the dreaded two words in Satanism, particularly modern/Laveyan, Devil Worship and if not worship, then still all about the Devil, as the devil has been painted by Christianity and cultures all around the world who have wickedly diabolically fiendish characters in their myths and none of them white washed, nor able to be white washed and as that mythologically implies on the psychological level the shadow. Either way you look at it Satan is still the Beast so to speak, the penultimate not such a nice guy, despite the attempt at being white washed by Satanists who are more or less just repeating what ASL said.

Being empty minded isn't a pejorative, just go ask Buddhists, particularly/especially those of zen, then go ask the hindus, then the Jains and the Sikhs and many others, what includes Scientologists.  Talking about values, empty mindedness is a huge value in those traditions.  What is acting like a troll?

Quote from FraterLuciferi The fact that you are not religious in nature states that you are not a Satanist simply because Satanism is a religion. You will never understand it. Goodbye Troll.

In other words you are making by implication the claim that I am a false or pseudo Satanist, because I don't fit the mold of what you and others have been told is a Satanist and that pal is an example of contradiction. Whatever can and may have been said and will be said about me by anyone, it can never be said that I am a non consistent, that is to say a man of contradiction. A man of paradox yes, but not of contradiction. What are you talking about? I just clearly shown that I do understand it. Why are those like you threatened by the truth of real intelligence and knowledge; knowledge that isn't repeated information, if not misinformation to boot?  Also, you keep referring to me as troll, even after having shown the light of Lucifer to you, this leads me more into the conclusion that troll is being bandied even to those who don't fit the mold of what knowledge and intelligence is said to be by both the black and white papacy. Troll is not accurate to me, I am more of the sly man, who is associated with the fool, who in turn can be associated with the Devil as trickster, what goes back to the wicked trickster archetype that is the basis of all such mythological characters the world over. This all is also associated with the shadow concept of psychology, the basis of all myth, psychology.