Why must you over state Satanism's religion status, emphatically stating that it's nothing else besides, why can't it be simultaneously a religion, an ideology, a philosophy; a complete system, or way of life?
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@FraterLuciferi | Forum
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ol' grimey
May 13 '16
Still they all are a package deal, no matter the difference in specific opinions on a general matter.
Member ShadowLover
May 13 '16
Just my two cents... I am an advocate of the LHP but don't classify myself as a Satanist. Therefore, I believe that although the two often go together, they don't necessarily have to.
As far as what Satanism is, I believe it can be classified as a religion or a philosophy or a way of life depending how an individual approaches it, at least that is the myriad I have witnessed since joining SIN - Satanists can't agree on what Satanism is. ...It is different for each!
Member ShadowLover
May 13 '16
Well, I certainly admit to not having done a lot of research.
I understand what you are saying. Satanism is definitely a religion. I believe we are perhaps seeing a similar outcome. You got to this outcome by redefining religion. I got to this outcome by broadening the definition of Satanism.
Similar definition - different paths...
ol' grimey
May 13 '16
Right, but you must admit that your rationality played a part in why you are also a Satanist and a rational Satanist's political ideology mirrors, or is compatible to/with their religion. Irrational political ideologies of those Satanists you mention is the compatible counterpart to their irrational state over all, is an irrational Satanist, actually a Satanist, that is to say did they come to Satanism out of desperation, rebellion or a need to feel set apart or did they come to Satanism out of logic?Still they all are a package deal, no matter the difference in specific opinions on a general matter.
I'm also trying to get permission to edit wikipedia so people can acknowledge the fact that Satanism is a religion as Satanists have shared set of values and basic philosophy. My point is just that religions and political ideologies are separated. I follow my political ideology because it's rational and not because I'm a Satanist, and I have encountered Satanists who follows completely irrational political ideologies.
The Forum post is edited by ol' grimey May 13 '16
ol' grimey
May 13 '16
A lifetime education. With that what would you say becomes of the education at the end of the current life?
Member ShadowLover
May 14 '16
Ah, see this is where I am glad to believe in the capacity for having multiple lives...
Regardless, I think knowledge can be looked at as another form of energy... And as such basically adheres to the same rules.
Knowledge can be retained, stored and redrawn from objects and even atoms. Knowledge can travel with a spirit or soul. Like energy, knowledge never actually dies. Knowledge can be used to manifest. It can also be used to cancel out or negate negative bogeymen.
Member ManxLoaghtan
May 15 '16
Religion as a word used to describe any group of people stems from latin (religâre) meaning to bind together or to tie/bind fast under a concept of belief in a divine "supernatural" being or God/Goddess of one or sometimes more. If using the term religion to define myself, I would have to say apart from enjoying talking to others within the LHP I have never felt bound or tied to them in a sense of religion; same kind of values or not. I do see where you are coming from though Frater, but Satanism seems difficult to categorize since so many who are Satanists do not follow or believe in the same ways as in spiritual ways, even if based on similar values: so many of those values bent and twisted to fit each individual as a personal thing, sometimes omitted completely, some seeing Satan as a higher power and others seeing Satan as a representation, others see themselves as the metaphorical satan. On just those points alone I do not see how all could be grouped as one, and is that not what many are trying to remove themselves from? Yet as you say also, it's all about the same values, this is possibly the answer to the question of whether or not Satanism is a religion leaving no right or wrong answer, and heading towards philosophy on that point alone. Far too hard to categorise, even the constant study involved would suggest it was Theological in nature, wanting to learn more about the Divine being or self.
Member ManxLoaghtan
May 15 '16
Ah, see this is where I am glad to believe in the capacity for having multiple lives...Are you basically talking about the Soul/ spirit... reincarnation possibly also? The knowledge energy manifesting itself into another life form?
Regardless, I think knowledge can be looked at as another form of energy... And as such basically adheres to the same rules.
Knowledge can be retained, stored and redrawn from objects and even atoms. Knowledge can travel with a spirit or soul. Like energy, knowledge never actually dies. Knowledge can be used to manifest. It can also be used to cancel out or negate negative bogeymen.
ol' grimey
May 15 '16
Yes, but just as there are cultural Mormons, cultural Jews... there can also be cultural Satanists, who like the previously mentioned can be Satanists on the common set of values and philosophy, whilst being not at all religious. By the way Frater, how do you define religion?
The Forum post is edited by ol' grimey May 15 '16
Member ManxLoaghtan
May 15 '16
@Frater You yourself say that Satanists have "a common set of values and a basic philosophy to relate to" then you later say "Satanism is a religion because there is a system of values, philosophy, symbols and rituals" yet you also state "Claiming that Satanism is a philosophy is the same to claim that Christianity is a lifestyle... To me it's dishonest... this confuses me, please could you explain? You agree Satanism uses philosophy but disagree that it is a philosophy. Something can be more than one thing only, and not clearly defined by just one thing but need many definitions for it's existence.
Member ShadowLover
May 15 '16
@ Frater and Manx... I am saying a couple of different things.
Firstly, that knowledge is a form of energy. Knowledge does not die with ones body just as in wasn't born with ones body. Frater, you did not invent the knowledge you possess. Knowledge has existed for an eternity. All you have done is discover a very tiny part of it. A very tiny part of it is now within your conscious perception.
Secondly, Manx. Not necessarily the soul. But if you look at a curse on lets say, a charm. The charm itself retains the laws of physics. When it becomes cursed it has learnt to retain a new set of laws as well - that laid down by the person who created the curse. Likewise, psychometry is the ability to read the energy which has been retained in an object. Reading this energy is another way to discover knowledge.
The Forum post is edited by ShadowLover May 15 '16
Member ShadowLover
May 15 '16
Frater, brain damage is a perfect example of what I am saying. If somebody gets brain damage and doesn't recognise me, it is simply their perspective which has changed. I am still who I was. The world is still the same. It is only the person's ability to perceive it that has changed. As when you are dead.
This conversation reminds me of a child playing peekaboo - they put their hands over the eyes and everyone disappears. As adults we know this isn't what has occurred - only the baby's perception has changed.
Knowledge is like the consciousness of energy. It doesn't give a fuck if you die. It still exists. It always has done and always will, no matter what happens to your perception.
Member ShadowLover
May 15 '16
You didn't invent knowledge. The same knowledge has always existed. You only discovered a little piece.
Knowledge is not the result of learning. Your awareness of this knowledge is the result of learning.
Member ShadowLover
May 15 '16
When you learn you become knowledgeable - you didn't invent the knowledge. This is not a new concept.
The Forum post is edited by ShadowLover May 15 '16
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Member ManxLoaghtan
May 16 '16
Right, so maybe not reincarnation into a physical living body but a possibility of the energy transferring across to other objects around at time of death; like when psychics pick up messages/information from personal objects of the deceased. I agree that energy can not be destroyed, but have never processed the possibility of knowledge being an energy in its own right, very interesting conception.Firstly, that knowledge is a form of energy. Knowledge does not die with ones body just as in wasn't born with ones body.
Secondly,Not necessarily the soul. But if you look at a curse on lets say, a charm. The charm itself retains the laws of physics. When it becomes cursed it has learnt to retain a new set of laws as well - that laid down by the person who created the curse. Likewise, psychometry is the ability to read the energy which has been retained in an object. Reading this energy is another way to discover knowledge.
Member ShadowLover
May 16 '16
Manx, I don't think living more than one life is outside of the realm of possibility. I personally believe that we can reincarnate if we want to but many here would vehemently disagree with me and that is okay.
I believe we imprint on things everyday, sometimes consciously like when a woman makes a home peaceful, but often unconsciously. If everybody is imprinting on objects or in spaces, then there is memories and knowledge floating around that can be gathered by anyone. We think of obtaining knowledge through books or conversation or through experimentation, but we can also tap into imprints and energy.
If you add to that a form of non-linear time then the possibilities are endless, as not only could you pick up imprints from the past, but also the future.
But also think of universal knowledge like gravity. This is a rule which energy follows under certain circumstances. Energy is intelligent and knowledgeable enough to know when and how to follow this rule. And this intelligence does not exist and desist along with an individuals mortality. Energy's consciousness/intelligence/knowledge is eternal.
As far as messages from the deceased, this would come from their consciousness (spirit or soul) rather than from an imprint or recording. Many here don't believe in that either I don't think. But I believe a soul is really just a collection of energy which chooses to stay together and adopt an identity - and it also has a consciousness and can give a message. Makes sense to me.
The Forum post is edited by ShadowLover May 16 '16
Member ShadowLover
May 16 '16
Nope, but it's a notion you seem to be obsessed with. Perhaps you would feel better if you got what you desperately need to say off your chest.
Member ShadowLover
May 16 '16
I think I do. It's not something I read about and decided to become a part of. I was already on that journey when I read about it. I was discussing some of my philosophies with some witches a couple of years ago and saying how frustrated and unfulfilled I was with my present spiritual involvements. After listening to me one of them suggested I look up LHP - I hadn't even heard of it at that stage. I was so excited when I did. I read Demons Of The Flesh and just breathed a sigh of relief because I felt like there were people about that could understand what I was talking about. I am definitely an advocate of LHP.
But it was a place I reached on my journey. I can't say I was following the LHP ten years ago - it was a place I discovered naturally as I grew in myself.
I have also been accused (in a derogatory fashion) by quite a few people of being a Social Darwinist. Eventually I got curious and decided to learn what it was, and you know what - I am a Social Darwinist. I'm also a Capitalist. I grew up in a Left Wing family but Capitalism just made more sense to me than full blown Socialism. I read a story about Social Darwinism that was meant to be defaming where the author stated that Social Darwinism is just an excuse for Capitalism. I've since read that LHP is associated with the selfishness of Capitalism also.
How did I adopt all three philosophies without knowing what they were? Well, I have always claimed to be very primal. I grew up in the bush, and when life went to shit and I had no-one to rely on I adopted the behaviours I saw in my animal friends to survive. I embrace my instincts and animality. The survival of the fittest is a cornerstone of all these philosophies, but to me they are not just philosophies but reality as it is when you dust off the sugar. They invoke the natural laws in an unapologetic way.
I know there is more to LHP than survival of the fittest. To me, it is largely about peeling away all of the illusions society has enslaved us with. I was always a seeker and was able to see and face my truth. However, I was still trying to modify that truth into something that could be classified as "good". I was trying to curb my immoral thoughts and habits. Then I accepted they were a part of me and learned to see their value. It is a process to learn to look at yourself without moral judgement but I believe I have come a long way. Almost all of my demons have dissipated as I one at a time reconciled with them. I am almost free.
Facing demons will push you out of your comfort zone more than anything else. I mean, LHP discusses kinky sex to bend a persons mind, but when you have my past, sex no longer destabilises you. Nor does eating steak on Good Friday. My comfort zone is pretty broad. I have spent my entire life mentally and emotionally pushing my own limits... Bitch-slapping my demons - I even broke myself a couple of times when my demons slapped me back!
I am very proud of the personal growth I have achieved in my life thus far. And I do believe I am a Goddess.
