What is Satanism? | Forum

Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Aug 24 '14
Inspired by an aside in another topic, I'm interested:


What, to you, is Satanism? What distinguishes a Satanist from, say, an atheist goth kid, or someone really enthusiastic about Halloween? Define the essence of Satanism in your own words. 

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Zach Black Owner
Zach Black Aug 24 '14
Satanism to me is about embracing the individual. Promoting passion, indulgence and critical thinking. Satanism is also about challenging social norms. Testing and questioning social morale and dogma. Going against the grain. The Adversary. Question all things. Disbelieving in superstitious and religious rhetoric.

Satanism is also about loyalty towards the ones that deserve it.
The Forum post is edited by Zach Black Aug 24 '14
Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Aug 25 '14
Well, my main objection is in the underlying values and ethical structure that your definition seems to point to, and in seemingly rejecting the ideas of humanism. 


I would say that atheism upholding more or less humanistic values is, to some extent, the  core of what atheistic Satanism is. Enlightenment balanced by and leveraged towards the goal of indulgence and happiness. Centering the self and creating ones own path. Being the change which you wish to see in the world. 


Satanism doesn't have to be "evil" by any stretch of the word. Strength through conflict, while a valid idea, is not at the core of Satanism - merely a tertiary tenet of one segment. 


And, there's no reason not to assign charity or peace as attributes of Satan. We strive to create change in accordance with our wills, and one of the best ways to do that is to be the change you wish to see. I want a better world than the shit hole we currently inhabit, so I try to be the kind of person and do the kinds of things that I think will make the world a little better. Charity and working towards peace - in a way, you could label both of them a form of lesser magick. 

Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Aug 25 '14
So then I think that our main disagreement would be over the extent to which Satanism and secular humanism intersect. I would go so far as to say that they share the majority of their philosophy, with the main differences being that Satanism does not imply any sort of egality, and that Satanism does not imply any sort of inherent morality, leaving all moral determinations to the individual. I would probably even go so far as to say that many Satanists would also fall under the category of secular humanism. Secular humanism emphasizes the betterment and development of the species, while Satanism emphasizes the betterment and development of the individual; the two, while different and from some viewpoints within either at odds, are not mutually exclusive. 


And, I do not contend that charity and peace are attributes of Satan, merely that they can be. Satan, like all gods, is ultimately a reflection of our own values. If the Satanist values charity and peace for their own ends, then so too does Satan, within their path. The same is true of strength through conflict. It is a trait Satan can have - but only for you. 


And besides, you most certainly can shoot someone in an attempt at peace. You just have to not miss. 

Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Aug 25 '14
Well then, Huzzah I suppose. An accord is had. 
nikey69
nikey69 Aug 27 '14
Hail both

what an interesting debate and well worth reading. I will put mt two penny in. I quite agree with you both that there is no such thing as egality. Everyone should be judged by their actions and this should be in reference to self development but also the advancement of the species in progres. As for peace and charity this will in my opinion apply to those who deserve it. Who are they? well dependant of your core values this may differ. But generally those who are something by their actions i.e have an inpact for self development or the species should be extended peace and charity. Those who fall well outside your core beliefs should not always have these considerations
Berardo Rodriguez Member
Berardo Rodriguez Sep 9 '14
Satanism is a way or  a manner of living which evolves  to be free of the moral religious burdens that are against the carnal  pleasures ,and to rebel to all the laws ( called ' divine' or  'human' ) imposed on a person to abstain him/her  of 

the liberties as an individual who has the right to think and to live in the way he / she wants , and takes Satan as his fighting flag .

Troll Member
Troll Oct 19 '15
Satanism is a revolution against oppressive anti-satanic religion and culture. It uses the form and image of the Adversary as propped up in bogey form to construct a meaningful and fulfilling spirituality in service to those who made it, whether or not this includes something ontologically related to something called Satan.
ShadowLover Member
ShadowLover Oct 19 '15
I have no idea what Satanism is. I think it is worshipping your true self. I believe that caging the animal is a form of self-sabotage and that you can't really grow or ascend, or whatever the hell we are supposed to be doing, by denying your own truth. Morality and society are a part of that cage.
ShadowLover Member
ShadowLover Oct 20 '15
And frankly, although philosophically curious, I don't really care what it is. ...Just so long as I get to meet brave and honest souls.
Troll Member
Troll Oct 20 '15
The flip side of the question is whether there are any things which are NOT Satanisms. If you saw them, could you recognize them as totally wrong, or definitely not something you'd agree was Satanism?

Some examples:
• Christian Satanism, worshipping the Father (Jehovah), Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit;
• Fascist Satanism which subsumes the individual in favour of the cult leader or heroic megalomaniac.
• Satanic Jello Worshippers whose primary activity is the consumption of Hello Kitty moulded jello desserts.
Shawn
Shawn Oct 20 '15
@Frater: "In Satanism you are free to believe and do what you want."


Pffft. I don't need Satanism to believe or do whatever I want.  Any fool can do that.

Troll Member
Troll Oct 20 '15
Those who are brought up in doctrinal religions often think that religion is all about what is BELIEVED, and that all religions have CREEDS. This is not actually true, but former Christians who enter into Neopaganism, Thelema, and Satanism often ask 'what Satanists believe' and 'what the required beliefs are for Satanists'.
Shawn
Shawn Oct 20 '15
I'm on record saying that there are no real Satanists, only real people. Again, get real.


By the symbolic language of pretense, living in my own dark imagination, which is certainly up to Mr. Satan who metaphorically whispers in my ear the things I think make me cool with no merit of mine, of course, if I just use the word 'freethinking' without having a fucking clue what that means, nobody will notice... <--- this is what you sound like


I can hear you now about as well as you've heard me: not at all. Good luck with that pretentious head up your ass shit. 

Shawn
Shawn Oct 20 '15
Heh ;) Two.
Zach Black Owner
Zach Black Oct 21 '15

Quote from troll Those who are brought up in doctrinal religions often think that religion is all about what is BELIEVED, and that all religions have CREEDS. This is not actually true, but former Christians who enter into Neopaganism, Thelema, and Satanism often ask 'what Satanists believe' and 'what the required beliefs are for Satanists'.
Good point. I have noted this to. I guess when one is indoctrinated into a certain type of religious institution they bring that paradigm with them when they take on something else. 
Troll Member
Troll Oct 27 '15

Quote from FraterLuciferi 
:: In Satanism you are free to believe and do what you want.

This is irrational. There is no 'in Satanism' that would have any ability to restrict you, and therefore "you are free...." just doesn't make sense to claim here. It goes without saying that within most Western contexts belief is an optional choice and within certain heavily constrained, conservative environments in which creeds are established (e.g. Christian) and monitoring of expression (e.g. Muslim), one is not free to maintain one's identity or thought there if one is a Satanist. 'Being a Satanist' in such a context would be difficult, perhaps impossible, contrary to your contention.

Quote from FraterLuciferi:
:: Some Satanists do believe in the biblical concepts of Satan and God 

 Then they aren't Satanists, they're Christians or Jews. Again, this is irrational.

Quote from FraterLuciferi:
:: and some Satanists {believe} in elitism. 

 I don't see how these are in any way really incompatible (elitism could become part of "the biblical concepts of Satan and God", for example).

Quote from FraterLuciferi:
:: CoS {does} actually {promote} elitism like Fascists {do}...

 That's a tricky proposition. Yes, Boyd Rice and Peggy Nadramia and a few others within the Church of Satan have provided symbolism and lip service to what they trotted out as "fascism" (to effect, i suppose, a kind of social trolling, possibly to identify the neo-nazis in their midst), and they definitely support the notion of 'elitism' (what, "Alien Elite", or something?).

 However, trying to equate this with fascism of any specific type (say, Aryan or Hitlerian fascism, or original Mussolinian fascism) we can observe within their history that the Church of Satan isn't easily compatible with these (check out Aquino's "Church of Satan" for their mockery and deliberate excision of rabid neo-nazis in their church during its earlier years.

 Their support of individualism and a primarily apolitical interest doesn't seem really intrusive or fascist, either. Being insular and not laying a very strong emphasis in public advocation on how everybody should follow (and worship) Anton LaVey, or Peter H. Gilmore, or other leaders of the current church, is *opposite* to what you are claiming here. I think you're demonizing CoSatanists, possibly baiting them.
The Forum post is edited by Troll Oct 27 '15
Anna
Anna Oct 30 '15
@FraterLuciferi

Satanism differs from other religions because Satan is that kind of god who promotes free thinking and individuality. If you look at the myth and legends on Satan you will see he is a free thinker, a rebel against tyranny and the god of this world.

What legends and myths exactly? Take, for example, the Book of Job. Satan there cooperates with God and helps him to test Job's faith. Also, Jesus is sent by God into the wilderness and similarly subjected to Satan's test. "Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil." In both cases Satan seems to be a tool of Providence, the one that checks/tests the faith and endurance of God's chosen ones. When Satan was tempting Christ his final words were:

<<Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”>> (Matthew 4)

If you bow down and worship me... You wouldn't expect such an encouragement from someone who "promotes free thinking and individualism." Actually, Satan doesn't promote anything. He's an adversary, someone that tests, subjects you to ordeals and checks what you're made of.

You can't tell Satanists what they are going to believe and do.

But, of course, you can. Conformity is very tempting, don't you think? Especially that it always brings rewards. Look above.

CoS is full of shit and contradictions and no thinking people can take them seriously. They don't support individualism as they always claims they own the term "Satanism"

This is true of the many other organizations and also lone wolves within Satanism. CoS is not unique in this regard. Mind... "Bow down and worship me and all of this I will give to you." Will it blow over your head?
The Forum post is edited by Anna Oct 30 '15
Anna
Anna Oct 31 '15
@FraterLuciferi

Genesis 3 for example. The fall from Heaven (I don't remember exactly the myth).

Actually, no. In Genesis 3 Satan is portrayed as a tempter, the one that tempts/tests the first humans. Where in the Bible is Satan portrayed as a rebel, free-thinker with focus on individuality etc? There is some evidence to the contrary, like humans worshiping the Beast in the Apocalypse. Not a very Satanic behavior.

It's Milton who portrayed Satan as a rebel, non-conformist and a free thinker in his "Paradise Lost." He describes thoroughly Satan's Fall from Heaven, his defiance against God, refusal to worship the Savior, his persistent stubbornness even in the face of punishment and extreme pride "Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven." Milton also equips Satan with very human characteristics, he feels sorrow and suffers because of being rejected by God and exiled from Heaven. Still extreme suffering doesn't break his pride.

You don't get Satanism because you still have dogmatic ways of thinking...

I sometimes wonder whether you think at all. You simply parrot stuff that can be found in TSB and all over the internet. Satan stands for individualism, free-thinking, rationalism blah blah blah, add more platitudes to it, without trying to learn where these ideas come from. From your experience? C'mon. All other Satanists from the cyberland say the same thing.
Hartnell
Hartnell Nov 15 '15
@Frater: 


"The worship of the beast (and the snake in Gnosticism) is a personal choice but satanic worship is not submission bur rather admiration. Satanists who worships gods do it to learn from them and not because they fear them..."


Google : invocation chaos magick


You may dig it. :)

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