Links if anyone is interested....
The Book Of Abramelin (German To English Translation)
The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abra-Melin the Mage (S.L. Mathers trans)
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The Satanic Temple - Dominate Satanic Organization | Forum
antonmesmer
Jun 25 '19
Thanks.
The Forum post is edited by antonmesmer Jun 25 '19
antonmesmer
Jun 26 '19
Which is an idea that comes from LaVey. And I think he's wrong. I don't believe that anyone is "born" a Satanist, anymore than they're born Mormon, Libertarian, emo, or anything else.
You're born human, and the rest is up in the air until you've had some life experience. Your genetic inheritance might mean you have a predisposition to be a certain way, like artistic, or a drug addict (if you believe in that kind of medical model of addiction). But your experiences in your environment have to shape that into something.
You're born human, and the rest is up in the air until you've had some life experience. Your genetic inheritance might mean you have a predisposition to be a certain way, like artistic, or a drug addict (if you believe in that kind of medical model of addiction). But your experiences in your environment have to shape that into something.
Satanists are born and not made because those who can identify themselves with the archetype of Satan is that character by nature.
Dark Enlightenment
Jun 26 '19
Which is an idea that comes from LaVey. And I think he's wrong. I don't believe that anyone is "born" a Satanist, anymore than they're born Mormon, Libertarian, emo, or anything else.
You're born human, and the rest is up in the air until you've had some life experience. Your genetic inheritance might mean you have a predisposition to be a certain way, like artistic, or a drug addict (if you believe in that kind of medical model of addiction). But your experiences in your environment have to shape that into something.
Satanists are born and not made because those who can identify themselves with the archetype of Satan is that character by nature.
Then you have no clue what Satanism is.
The difference between "born" or a type of social damage (environment) that occurs very young can be debated forever. It occurs during initial developement at minimum. So it can be defined at least in the latter context.
Throughout interaction here and other places the "S-Types" I have come across (not you) seem to share at least bits of everyone of those. Only those without ability to see "it" think otherwise.
• Independent Thinking (obvious)
• "Oppositional Defiance Disorder"
• Aversion to abstraction as method of attainment. (Skeptical)
• Aversion to reward in pressure situations
• Misanthropic
• Prone to taboo transgression
• Prone to direct retribution (eye for eye)
A few of those:
ODD:
If motherfuckers can pedal and DSM it up, one can make an argument for satanism being a "personality type", as it shares several "symptoms" with ODD.
Taboo transgression:
My favorite example.
"What Satanists may choose to do when they are pushed by Christian hysteria"
During the Satanic Panic, as the Aquinos were defending their Presidios, and others were "shucking and jiving" like houseniggers, a few CoS members had what I would consider a "Satanic response".
Instead of crying foul they drove into the paint, and promptly shot back at hysteria with a transgressive rally... on 8-8-88 (Hail Hitler, Hail Hitler). They purposely used the Neo Nazi aesthetic to compound the fear of their detractors.
It is my believe a "born satanist" pushed will respond with varying degrees of "shock jock satire" or at very least be compelled strike back, and attack the sensitivities of their accuser and get back at them in some direct way.
Abstraction:
In time of peril. Certain types look up; others look within.
Person is left near destitute (financial or emotional) without apparent means to get out of that situation or feel better.
There are types that look for the hand and footholds that will best support their weight in the perilous transit up. Keeping a firm grasp on the task without deferring to nebulous bullshit.
There are other types that set up camp in the clearing light black candles and chant for rescue to come.
Any point here you want clarified by my born or environmentally damaged satanic core feel free to ask.
The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jun 26 '19
antonmesmer
Jun 26 '19
That was good. You kinda had me in a defensive posture for a minute there.
I know what I know, and do what I do.
I know what I know, and do what I do.
I'm not applying for a position on your list of Real Satanists, so I have no reason to produce a resume.
Dark Enlightenment
Jun 26 '19
Well, now I won't fuck with you because of your response. Maybe I was a bit presumptuous with assuming you were another Seeker. Well said.
So let's change up tone:
Why do you think there isnt a born element? Does that include the "early life influence" as scripting certain personality quirks?
The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jun 26 '19
antonmesmer
Jun 26 '19
I don't believe I ever said there isn't a "born element."
The typical LaVeyan statement is something like, "Satanists are born, not made." Which means what, precisely? We're "born this way"? It's genetic? There's a "Satan" gene?
Will two Satanists necessarily produce Satanic offspring, regardless of how those offspring are raised? Are other worldviews also genetic?
The raw genetic material is being shaped from the time we're in the womb. After birth, we're shaped by our perceptions of what's going on around us (not "what's happening" but what we perceive/think is happening).
Then as we develop self consciousness we take a more active part in deciding what our environment consists of - what things to have around us, what human animals to interact with. Biological development continues, and our thoughts/actions are shaped by hormonal activity.
I have no way to prove it but my intuition is that most people "discover" they're Satanists when they're teenagers. And there are different things going on there. They're actively searching for their place in the world - who am I? where do I belong? etc. The rebellion stuff is kicking in, so they're all about testing (or obliterating) boundaries.
The typical LaVeyan statement is something like, "Satanists are born, not made." Which means what, precisely? We're "born this way"? It's genetic? There's a "Satan" gene?
Will two Satanists necessarily produce Satanic offspring, regardless of how those offspring are raised? Are other worldviews also genetic?
The raw genetic material is being shaped from the time we're in the womb. After birth, we're shaped by our perceptions of what's going on around us (not "what's happening" but what we perceive/think is happening).
Then as we develop self consciousness we take a more active part in deciding what our environment consists of - what things to have around us, what human animals to interact with. Biological development continues, and our thoughts/actions are shaped by hormonal activity.
I have no way to prove it but my intuition is that most people "discover" they're Satanists when they're teenagers. And there are different things going on there. They're actively searching for their place in the world - who am I? where do I belong? etc. The rebellion stuff is kicking in, so they're all about testing (or obliterating) boundaries.
Those who find themselves with a copy of TSB are further shaped by its contents. It might feel like we're just reading it. But the more we identify with the message and (maybe more importantly at that point) the aesthetics, the more we are molded by it. When we start thinking, "yes! that's it!" we're encouraged to develop more in that direction.
There's an interaction of genetics, environment, chemistry, and consciousness, from conception until death. I don't think we're ever really "finished." Change is just nature.
Dark Enlightenment
Jun 26 '19
Well there will always be white boys from Des Moines in love with "Urban/Hip-Hop Culture". It is hard to not get despondent.
I hate to parrot Anton, but "if Alcoholics can be born"... And so there is some depth to that.
You see alcoholism in the "predisposed to heavy drinking cultures", mainly Gaelic/English variants. English, Irish, White American, Canadian, and Australian.
And you see susceptibility in cultures with no immunity. That the Indians (feathers) had such violent and severe reactions in the inverse. I still feel it shows "things introduced by culture effect behavior and genetic memory."
Using that as establishment of precedent:
The VMAT2 gene may provide a necessary genetic mutation. As ideologies and cultural norms are part of the human habitat they have every ability to prompt mutation.
Religion is some cultures everything. Their piddly beliefs so inherent and prominent in their culture it can be woven into adaptive traits.
I do not think that gene is god or even faith specific, I think of it as a "necessary detractor" gene that can arise as an emergent phenomenon to prevent stagnation in the gene pool, assuming ideas are dynamic enough to prompt adaptation.
I don't believe I ever said there isn't a "born element."
The typical LaVeyan statement is something like, "Satanists are born, not made." Which means what, precisely? We're "born this way"? It's genetic? There's a "Satan" gene?
Will two Satanists necessarily produce Satanic offspring, regardless of how those offspring are raised? Are other worldviews also genetic?
The raw genetic material is being shaped from the time we're in the womb. After birth, we're shaped by our perceptions of what's going on around us (not "what's happening" but what we perceive/think is happening).
Then as we develop self consciousness we take a more active part in deciding what our environment consists of - what things to have around us, what human animals to interact with. Biological development continues, and our thoughts/actions are shaped by hormonal activity.
I have no way to prove it but my intuition is that most people "discover" they're Satanists when they're teenagers. And there are different things going on there. They're actively searching for their place in the world - who am I? where do I belong? etc. The rebellion stuff is kicking in, so they're all about testing (or obliterating) boundaries.
Those who find themselves with a copy of TSB are further shaped by its contents. It might feel like we're just reading it. But the more we identify with the message and (maybe more importantly at that point) the aesthetics, the more we are molded by it. When we start thinking, "yes! that's it!" we're encouraged to develop more in that direction.
There's an interaction of genetics, environment, chemistry, and consciousness, from conception until death. I don't think we're ever really "finished." Change is just nature.
I hate to parrot Anton, but "if Alcoholics can be born"... And so there is some depth to that.
You see alcoholism in the "predisposed to heavy drinking cultures", mainly Gaelic/English variants. English, Irish, White American, Canadian, and Australian.
And you see susceptibility in cultures with no immunity. That the Indians (feathers) had such violent and severe reactions in the inverse. I still feel it shows "things introduced by culture effect behavior and genetic memory."
Using that as establishment of precedent:
The VMAT2 gene may provide a necessary genetic mutation. As ideologies and cultural norms are part of the human habitat they have every ability to prompt mutation.
Religion is some cultures everything. Their piddly beliefs so inherent and prominent in their culture it can be woven into adaptive traits.
I do not think that gene is god or even faith specific, I think of it as a "necessary detractor" gene that can arise as an emergent phenomenon to prevent stagnation in the gene pool, assuming ideas are dynamic enough to prompt adaptation.
In our culture it may arise as an inherent skepticism and antitheism.
The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jun 26 '19
antonmesmer
Jun 26 '19
I don't believe alcoholics, or addicts in general, are "born," either. And that's kind of an area of study I spend a lot of time in. There is, as yet, no "alcoholic gene." So, no precedent. (Check out Stanton Peele, Lance Dodes, and Marc Lewis to see my basic view of addiction.)
Satanism is a philosophy, a worldview. That's conceptual. I just don't see it being passed on genetically.
Satanism is a philosophy, a worldview. That's conceptual. I just don't see it being passed on genetically.
Dark Enlightenment
Jun 26 '19
Well, I am not absolving their weakness, I will say my point really rests on
If alcohol had no effect on biology and genetic memory or at least in the "tolerance of", it wouldn't have had the fucked effect it did on landbridge crossing indigenous folk. Beyond just never encountering it or its effects.
The very existence of such written about "fire water" noise is more than just colonial bullshit. Their bodies could not handle it in the ways europeans could. That two homo sapiens had different reactions alone says "alcohol in cultures that had it" have tolerance in genetic memory. Some have not only tolerance but a draw to it. Beyond "via immersion alone".
Studies have shown children of mothers who quit smoking years before pregnancy can still grow up seeing a cigarette and really wanting it for a strange reason their 8 year old mind cant put together. Even with out exposure to watching it as a learned behavior.
And that's with chemicals.
I see it as a "Humans are god's perfect creatures above environmental adaptation" arrogance. As if there have been no mutations since Mesopotamia. Very Christian, almost like it's a genetic memory of some sort or least it is heavily ingrained to elevate ourselves above every other animal.
Too often falling into the trap of "well sharks really haven't changed" and apply it falsely to the dynamic environment humans live. Tokyo, Japan for humans is every bit a habitat that South Pacific islands are for birds and reptiles.
But then I likewise do not differentiate much between nomadic hunting with spears and how crows work in teams to open doors and shit. Logic being: Anything that effects an organisms experience will be adapted to if need be. And when organic idea becomes so ingrained its almost born in (like faith or blind obedience) you gotta hope at least that a fraction of a percent are Browncoats.
I will check those writers out though.
The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jun 26 '19
Member Tkwilliams
Jul 4 '19
I agree with both of you. I think it is a specific personality trait that doesn't fall the "programming ". I know they can tell if a person is easily hypnotized from your genetic make up so I think that answer can be related to that. I also agree that satanism is a personal philosophy. I use it to navigate this modern world and other things I satisfy my spiritual life with heathenry the two seem to work together very well.
I also believe that satanism and is rituals are perfect and necessary to brake the brainwashing of any abrahamic rigorous poison.
Brother Shamus
Jul 4 '19
It can be both when the trait feeds the individualism.
You also can claim a more authentic claim as a Norse Heathen. The attainment is through a way in antithesis of normal morality.
The trait comes in [here]
Your trait drew you towards an antithetical way. You don't have call it Satanism or anything you don't want to. It falls way more under the LHP umbrella than others.
You also can claim a more authentic claim as a Norse Heathen. The attainment is through a way in antithesis of normal morality.
The trait comes in [here]
Your trait drew you towards an antithetical way. You don't have call it Satanism or anything you don't want to. It falls way more under the LHP umbrella than others.
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OwenDark
Aug 25 '19
TST are not Satanists and then will never be it nor matter how many followers they gets. Satanism is a religion that has only appealed to few types of people.
