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Struggle between 9 satanic statements and TST 7 tenets | Forum

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Gonzo
Gonzo Aug 13
Greetings. So first off, my first exposure to satanism was the satanic bible. It blew my mind how I realized that I had similar beliefs for years. Anyways, so then I saw an article on the satanic temple. I was immediately drawn to them because of their activism. Now here’s my point for this discussion, LaVeyan Satanism has the 9 satanic statements and the satanic temple has their 7 tenets. I often find myself leaning more toward the 9 satanic statements then the 7 tenets. I feel like the tenets or more like humanism than satanism. I fully support TST however I don’t fully agree with everything they do. Satanism being about empowering the individual, I take parts of both versions of satanism that work best for me. Anyone else dealing with this?
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PlasmoticJezebel
No.


Here's why: Below are the 10 true Satanic statements given to its advanced adepts. You'd have to be a member of the secret inner group to receive these.


Satanism is an international society, membership of which is open to persons who attain a score in an intelligence test higher than that of ninety-eight per cent of people in general.


Its purposes are to conduct research in psychology and social science, to identify and foster human intelligence for the benefit of humanity and to provide opportunities for social contacts among its members.


Its activities include the investigation of members' opinions and attitudes by postal questionnaires, and the exchange of ideas by lectures, discussions, and other means.


It offers the services of its members to research workers in psychology and social science outside the society.


Satanism has no aim which is for the advantage of its members unless it is also for the advantage of the community.


Members or groups of members may express opinions, but Satanism as a whole has no opinions: no opinion shall be expressed as being that of Satanism.


Satanism shall take no political action other than the publication of the results of its investigations.


Satanism shall not have any religious or political affiliations.


Any member may organize any group of members or any other legitimate activity in Satanism, but no member may commit the international society to anything (other than in his capacity as a member of the International General Committee).


Satanism is not a profit-making body.


... or did I just read for you Mensa's constitution?


See what I mean? The whole "it's Satanic because a supposed authority on the matter told me it is" way of looking at things is anything but.

The Forum post is edited by PlasmoticJezebel Aug 13
Gonzo
Gonzo Aug 13
Interesting...
Dark Enlightenment
It's actually not that hard to score in the 98th percentile.  On a Stanford-Binet IQ test you have be 145+ to be top two percent.   


So anyone that can anagram banalities into its only other word is set. Also rotating shapes and changing nonsense words to every day words so you can make an easier determination. I like using cats, alive/dead, and colors. Number sequences are just fun...


The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 13
PlasmoticJezebel
Take it up with Mensa who I plagiarized that from in order to illustrate a totally (yet unsurprisingly) missed point. Assessments as to the difficulty of any thing made by those who haven't themselves done it count for maybe a fart and a shrug.
Zach Black Owner
Zach Black Aug 13

Thanks for inspiring my next youtube video.


TST

1. Compassion to all living things

( Fail ) When I was the chapter head of Portland back in 2014 before I realized TST are not Satanists but left-wing liberal activists using Satanism aesthetics to push their liberal agenda, I checked em on this. They added the clause ... ' with - in reason ' afterwords.


There is no comparison, TST are a bunch of liberal activists u8sing the trappings and imagery of Satanism while waving the rainbow flag to push a political agenda. I am not at odds with their political agenda btw. I am at odds with rainbow cupcakes in the name of Satan and making a mockery ....faggotry outta a deeply held belief.

Zach Black Owner
Zach Black Aug 13

Hail Satan! I am a gay liberal goth emo that works at hot topic and has massive daddy issues! Hail Satan !



Dark Enlightenment

 in order to illustrate a totally (yet unsurprisingly) missed point. 


Point taken and you should know better than to use irony 'round here.
The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 13
PlasmoticJezebel
What TST along with most queens excel at - the only thing - is the application of bad theater and histrionics in furtherance of a pitiably distorted sense of proportion and self-importance.
Dark Enlightenment
As a histrionic drama queen, the last part of that is somewhat par for the narcissistic course, the only mistake [the mentioned] make is running and asking mommy to come and make the other kids play nice and/or generally acting like a petulant trust fund baby being told "no".  I am surprised by its success rate in application.  


And that isn't going anywhere so long as girls can cry their way out of a speeding ticket. 



The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 14
T.Volt
T.Volt Aug 14
Socialism. Heh. Maybe they have a Satanic idea after all. Sounds enough like Hell to me.
Dark Enlightenment
Time For Histrionics:


Socialism. Heh. Maybe they have a Satanic idea after all. Sounds enough like Hell to me.


Hell? A higher standard of living really sounds like hell? 


I want to know why you all get these standard right wing conflations. (Apart from anyone concerned with a capital gains tax). Fuck the TST. They are an organized protest of Planned Parenthood in its inverse. No different from any other cause-head pseudopolitical motivated angst. But...

Yeah, damn that socialism! Such a horrible system featuring the worlds best public healthcare, standards of living, and lowest rates of unemployment, albeit heavily unionized.

You all seem to have no idea what fucking socialism is and make you yourself look like backwater rebel flag waiving hicks parroting conservative media. Especially the reasons you all pile on whiny bitch liberals. How many of you are Secretariat(s)?

TST are not socialists, not even fucking close.  Socialism is not made up of easily triggered cupcakes - which are a continuing topic of conversation at most.

 Socialists, like myself, advocate the following:

The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies, as well as typical cultural practices, common to the Nordic countries  This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining, with a high percentage of the workforce unionised, while being based on the economic foundations of free market capitalism.

The great part about America is individual states could instill their own versions of such a syst....

That is unfortunately dreamland (even in California) - unlike this: 

The Countries with the highest rated healthcare and their respective systems.

Canada - Universal healthcare
Qatar -  Universal healthcare
France - Non-profit national health insurance system
Norway - Universal healthcare
New Zealand - Universal healthcare
Germany - Universal healthcare
Hong Kong - Universal healthcare
The Netherlands - Universal healthcare
Switzerland - Universal healthcare
Singapore - Universal healthcare
Luxembourg - Universal healthcare
Japan - Similar to Obamacare
Sweden - Universal healthcare
Denmark - Universal healthcare
Australia - Universal Healthcare
United Kingdom - Universal healthcare

So how many of you have a fucked credit score because of a hospital bill you couldn't pay?

So to reiterate: socialists are not liberals.


The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 14
PlasmoticJezebel

I'm not stupid enough to advocate for an entire economic system I don't fully understand merely on account of grievances with the health care system. 


What this sounds like to me is:


Don't like that Windows makes you have to pay for this particular piece of software you like to use? Switch to Linux! Sure, you've never used it before and that piece of software won't work there either, but at least you won't have to pay for anything.


Socialistic programs, btw, are not Socialism per se'. We already have socialistic programs and they're not horrible, either. Seeing the value in, say, the socialistic nature of public works and education has done nothing at all to sell me on Socialism as a form of government. Why would it?


Dark Enlightenment
Would it help if I used "democratic socialism"?  Do I need to add that other word? Like what Forbes says?  I could use other countries education systems (a lot of them have free college), a higher standard for retirement, far cheaper housing market, pick one. Collective bargaining, like the wikipedia highlighted? 


Pick a way, and I can discuss how a lot of the world has a better system than "republican" America, and the states they control. Universal coverage vs. not covering abortion are worthwhile priorities after all.  


** Taking 'con' on trickle down economics is one of my favorite debates.

 

Flippant comment:


Health and Education aren't important in 'Merika when all those 'liberals' are whining. 


All that aside, I am really looking foward to the 2020 debates, lead-up, and election. 


How fun would it be to support Kamela Harris on these boards, right?

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 15
PlasmoticJezebel
I don't see why you would use "democratic socialism" when the post you were responding to sure didn't. Socialism is socialism. Sure, you can call it the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea", but everyone knows it's still North Korea and that North Korea is about anything but.


Moreover, listen, I'm the first to admit that even for as well-read as I am,  I donot have the requisite background in political or economic theory to intelligently advocate for any system whatsoever. Then again, neither you nor 90% of those who do so vociferously advocate for these sorts of reforms have it either. In fact, I don't think you've so much as been to any one of these countries even on a layover - much less lived there. How could you possibly think yourself qualified at all to argue to how much better off they are? 


All of these things that these countries have, come not as a consequence of agreeing with an ideology, but as result of paying a cost. At what cost do these things come? Someone's paying that cost, and they may not find they're getting their money's worth. 


When you argue socialism, even "democratic" socialism, what you are arguing for is taxation. And taxation is theft. I'm already not-very-f'n-happy to be taxed at 24% of my annual income as-is. Now, maybe, healthcare should be "free". Maybe I'll buy into that, but here's where democracy, personal liberties, and socialism will soon be found to be wildly incompatible:


If my government is asking that I pay for yours and everyone else's healthcare out of my pocket, I have good cause to in turn insist that my government force you, then, to start taking better care of yourself in order to control costs to the tax payers. Your physicals will become mandatory and at least bi-annually - like car registrations, and moreover, I'm going to vie for having a lot more say in what you do pollute you body with. Expect drug tests and mandated rehab, because now your physical and mental well-being is no longer a private matter. It is now as much the public's concern and responsibility as the maintenance of the roads on which they drive. 

The Forum post is edited by PlasmoticJezebel Aug 15
Dark Enlightenment

Call it whatever you want, "The Nordic Model", if that works, we are dealing in concensus definition.


China can join North Korea.  Capitalism is state controlled.  But it works for China. There are endless nuances and semantic variations but at the end of the day, I saw another fucktarded Fox News equivocation. Anything not anti-pc is "socialist". The idiocy in the original conflation is what I am responding to. At the heart is bewilderment that you all were sold this alt right bullshit. They can't ba all Sin Jones and/or Dan Dread parrots.


Also, I am at a loss with the trend towards antiquated ideologies and much more how douchebag white pussy grabbing  privilege still has an appeal, It has to be more than "libtards are annoying".  


This must be why secretariat wore blinders... 


This caught my attention:


But as result of paying a cost


That is for the value added tax, you generally pay 15-25% off the top in taxes (and up to 55% total) in many of these mentioned economies.  There is a pride too. The myth being welfare states lead to laziness in cultures outside the US. I am thinking the ghetto and trailer park obliterate that from feasibility here.  They'd revolt worse than a switch to the superior metric system.


And then this: 


If my government is asking that I pay for yours and everyone else's healthcare out of my pocket, I have good cause to in turn insist that my government force you, then, to start taking better care of yourself in order to control costs to the tax payers.

You already do that. When was the last time you made sure your payment into social security wasn't going to drunks that start collecting at 55 so they can sit on ass and get drunk off 40's and Popov Vodka for 1600/month? SSDI, or its local equivalent? "Bipolar Disorder" counts as a disability. You should argue you are paying for a made up disease while you are at it.

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 15
PlasmoticJezebel
It's just I find more often than not that those who argue politics for something more than fun do so because their life is shit and they can't bear to face the gnawing suspicion that the only system that made it that way was one of their own intractable fuck ups and missteps. 


We're born into a system where the one thing you need to do is get money. It doesn't matter how you do it. You don't have to be the fastest, the strongest, the best looking, you don't even have to have talent at anything: just get money - there's a million ways to do it. Some of them are even legal. It's literally been set to easy-mode lowest-common-denominator and they're still complaining that life, with automatic transmissions, vending machines, central air, cable, petabytes of free porn, happy meals, menthol cigarettes, flavored vapes, bars and night clubs on nearly every corner, and cafe lattes is too unfair? 
If someone's going to suggest radical changes in economic policy and alternate ways of running an entire nation, I'm not going to take them seriously at all if they don't have the level of having one's shit together that, truth be told, would basically preclude altogether the wasting of time on forums and message boards ranting about it. Clean up your (the general you) own back yard, then I might listen to your ideas on how all the other yards in your neighborhood ought be kept.


Fact is, I really don't care what system is in place it's not important to me. There are some types who would adapt and find its loop-holes no matter what it were. Similarly, there are other types who'd fail and complain loudly for something else no matter what - chances are, they'd probably still find a way to get nowhere and be miserable in life even with everyone else paying for everything, because that's just who and what they are as people: idealistic yet otherwise shiftless and ineffectual dross.

The Forum post is edited by PlasmoticJezebel Aug 15
Dark Enlightenment
"It's just I find more often than not that those who argue politics for something more than fun do so because their life is shit and they can't bear to face the gnawing suspicion that the only system that made it that way was one of their own intractable fuck ups and missteps."

The grass in always greener and the devil did it. There is always an excuse or scapegoat to be had.

This is more in the style of the idealistic banter of a college dorm room.  There are several variances of western culture, and it just so happens i admire the Nordic variant. Mainly, for being in a welfare state and wanting to work simultaneously.  It is expensive to expatriate and there's no guarantee any of them have to take me.  Sweden is my best bet if they check social media. "Yaa, we love satan too, and Ghost and Arch Enemy."

I look at it like this, yes there are PLENTY of worse places to be born into. Iran, North Korea,  Syria, Sudan to start a long list.

 I just can't fully succumb to apathy. There is something in the world i see trending. Nonbelief and a much higher standard of living in a Western Culture. This keeps in mind China and North Korea's state sponsored atheismIt seems the places where atheism is over 50% inevitably have some variant of universal state support, calling it whatever you want.

Call it my grand utopic ideal, but it seems from my perspective the countries that drift away from church have a better functioning states. 

In my own generalization I see the GOP and lobbyist groups like The Christian Coalition (and by extension Red State America) as a perpetual source of stagnation. And then idealistically look to countries where god stopped being on anyone's side along time ago....  until the Muslims came.


This speaks for itself:


Countries by irreligion


So... Christians did it.

Open offer to someone from Scandinavia or most of Europe (except Poland for being 97% Christian, or Russia for being Russia) to discuss standard of living.

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 15
PlasmoticJezebel
I don't think I'd even know about the Nordic model at all were it not being proffered up as a reason to support some other agenda. An example of where socialism reportedly works.


Let's be real here, the economic modalities of any Scandinavian country is just not something I'd realistically expect any American to be versed-in at all sufficiently to have an opinion one way or the other about - let alone admire - unless maybe they've lived there for an extended amount of time or they just happen to be an economics major. That's otherwise just a really obscure nugget of academia to have in one's back pocket. Too obscure. No. It's only useful in justifying some other angle: such as socialism. 


Sure, it's said the Nordic model affords even greater economic mobility than here in the US, but does it? Is that what's doing it? Do I even know enough how these systems work to point-out where the statistics are misleading, comparing apples and oranges or spot-in? Does any one? How do you verify that sort of assertion? Are there other factors at play: such as ethics and culture? And no one's kidding anyone. This isn't about how great a country Denmark is or higher standards of living, it's about selling people on socialism. The line is "look how great everything is over there", and I have to raise an eyebrow because not once in my life have I ever been like "you know what's a great country? Fucking Sweden! Man, I would love to be over there" nothing about it has stood-out as place I'd even want to visit. It's like the Vermont of countries. The only people painting it like that are socialists and black metal enthusiasts, and I don't trust either 'm.


But moreover, what would you be doing in Sweden that you couldn't just as easily do over here?

The Forum post is edited by PlasmoticJezebel Aug 15
Dark Enlightenment
"Are there other factors at play: such as ethics and culture? And no one's kidding anyone. This isn't about how great a country Denmark is or higher standards of living."

I once had a Danish costumer. In her words the secret of the Danish is that they are, on matters of social minutia the whiniest country on earth, and bitching is a passtime, mainly about muslims.

The reason is culturally based. 

The Danish have an open and indifferent culture. It is simply not Danish to tell someone how to be, or pass judgement on matters that do not concern them directly.  There is simply no place for anything approaching theocracy, even on an individual level. For example: The Muslim tendency to attempt to change any society they interact with to serve their sensibilities heavily contrasted with Danish values. 

I once read the core values of Denmark and they were along the lines of:

Don't think you're better than anyone.
Don't bother people with things you can handle yourself.
Don't assume other people share your values.
Don't force your beliefs on other people.

And so on in that fashion.

To which the Dane said, "Yeah, but we can still angrily bitch at each-other endlessly."

There seems to be a cultural acknowledgement that is the bitching is silly.

The culture of the US (unlike Nordic counties) is simply not idealistically christian enough to pull this off.

"To each their own" in the US means, "To each their own... so long as it acknowledges their one true god" There are for FAR too many people with power, and littering the current administration *cough* Mike Pence *cough* that think that way.


My thinking is the amoral legacy of REAL Norse legend and notorious culture carried on through its descendents.  You have a working example on how honor and morality diverge in culture, even withstanding an aggressive effort to christianize it. 

While the elephant is pointing out the shattered glass house I can't help but think indifference is superior where concern for others is relevant. 

So I shall push my "better way" despite it actually invalidating its use as an argument, logically. 

How does one push for "Don't force your beliefs on other people" without shattering those panes of glass?


And also, like the guy from Weeds, Denmark is my Shangri La.

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 15
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