The Satanic Temple are not Satanists | Forum

Owner/Admin
Owner/Admin Aug 22 '19

One is Satanism... One is not Satanism . Know the difference.? 


Top right is the 9 Satanic statements by LaVey. taken from the Satanic Bible which are the pillars of modern satanic belief.


Bottom right is the 7 satanic tenants of The Satanic Temple which serves to be at the core of the organizations philosophies .


Now. I want you to compare the two. Do they resemble each other in anyway?

In fact they are diametrically opposed in many respects. I will compare them in more detail in a YouTube video later I hate to type.


So, LaVey established Satanism in the 60's. TST came on the scene about the same time I did about 2010. Pretty sure LaVey and company have long established the definition of what Satanism is.


For the TST to come forward and call themselves Satanist and the Satanic Temple while there tenants are not even close to the 9 satanic statements is not cool. I know some of you will say ' Your organization is called Satanic international Network' ? Well this is true we are one of dozens of Satanic organizations sharing a similar name, but we are Satanists. We agree with the 9 satanic statements and although time has modified for some of us certain aspects of LaVey original philosophy nothing we promote is at odds with the foundations of what he wrote down in the satanic bible in 1969.


Now hopefully the few of you who may not understand the intentional convoluted mess in confusing the two , you simply have a group TST pretending to be the other group Satanists to take from the Satanists something they felt wold help promote their agendas.


This is a old trick used when one party does not having any merit. They posture as a different party in hopes of fooling people into thinking they are with one group when they are not.and even state so much right in their own tenants on the site.mark at the end of it's title. Because they are not. They never were. It is for show, shock value and to attract a large group of individuals who are attention seeking and wish they were edgy. Large followers are very helpful in activism and political agendas.


This media hype and pretending to be satanists in rainbow Halloween costume act worked. So did the media stunts, Lucien brilliant ability to articulate such topics related to Satanism as the Satanic panic, and many others certainly did not hurt either.


As a Satanist I can say i am supportive on certain aspects of their agenda ( separation of church and state , women right to choose, ETC.) but the way they are going about doing if often completely contradicts my personal philosophy of Satanism because that is NOT what we believe in and also makes us look foolish and hypocritical.


Liberal activist using satanic aesthetics and Satanism's religious protected rights to push a left wing agenda is clever but offensive. Especially when you parade around calling yourself a Satanists. Most of you are not.


The back lash is already being seen with other groups who feel discriminated against or simply supportive of the Left agenda putting on Baphomets and getting Satanic tattoos even shouting ' HAIL SATAN' ! Most of TST has never studied Satanism and probably never nor have a desire too. This is happening big time in the LGBT community which I support and am active in. Maybe for every 100 teenage hot topic got kid or gay they get to shout ' HAIL SATAN' ....just maybe a couple of them will take the time to actually explore what that really means like we did.


Some TST supports are gonna take this as a personal attack on themselves. You should not. Look through my friends list on FaceBook there are hundreds of TST supporters. Well maybe not now LOL. i am not calling members of the TST idiots although their is no small shortage of them in there, I am drawing lite to the fact you all are not part of Satanism or is TST a Satanic organization. And there is nothing wrong with that. Just stop calling yourself Satanists if you are not. If your belief in Satanism not nearly identical to what is put down in the Satanic Bible by LaVey then call yourself something else please..


I have met some legit Satanist in TST and I wonder how can you be affiliated with a organization who's core tenants are opposed to ours? Oh well. And to the rest of the TST who calls themselves Satanism but have never read LaVey stop it.


Call yourself the atheistic liberal left wing flying spaghetti cult.


That sounds way better than the dozen insulting acronym I am going to start calling you in public if you don' t. Hail Satan !


If you agree with this evaluation please share it on all your social media. I am.

Zach Black 
satanicinternationalnetwork.com

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The Forum post is edited by Owner/Admin Aug 22 '19
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Anna
Anna Aug 22 '19

Basically, what you're saying is this: "If you do not agree with what Mr LaVey wrote, you're not a Satanist." Personally, it amuses me how people who associate Satanism with individualism, nonconformity and free thinking, make an appeal to authority figures. If TST is using Satanic aesthetics for the show and shock value, then LaVey was doing a similar thing with his occult meet-ups, TV shows and handing out Church degrees he admitted were quite meaningless. He was a showman himself and his Satanism was a tongue in cheek, carnival-like and life affirming poke at Christianity, rather than some kind of a philosophy or a religion, or a belief to be taken seriously. I cannot stop wondering why people tend to take all those statements and rules from the Satanic Bible much in the same way as Christians take the 10 commandments.


No offence intended, but for more than five years you've been accused by your own former friends of "doing Satanism wrong." Is punching one's detractors in the face enough to win the "true vs fake Satanism" debate or is there a need for some kind of a Satanic Inquisition, which according to the CoS Magister Memo would expose posers and fakers? If so, who has the authority to decide what true Satanism is and who has a right to wear the mantle of a Satanist? Both the Church of Satan and Temple of Set consider themselves heirs to LaVey's legacy. Not to mention other orgs and individuals. What about the ONA rants about LaVey not being evil enough, therefore not Satanic?


I can agree with you that TST tenets are lame but are the nine Satanic statements really more controversial, judging by today's standards?

Owner/Admin
Owner/Admin Aug 22 '19
The issue is as I thought I explained it they are not even in the ball park of Satanism or anything LHP. I never said what you put into quotations as if I did " If you do not agree with MR. LaVey you're not a Satanist'' . 


If you want to carry the label Satanist then you need to have a general philosophical disposition with those people that established that label which is LaVey. That does not make you a sheep or contradict some of the inherent ideologies that outline Satanism like you mentioned herd conformity and individualism, it make you not a hypocrite and true to the brand that you are not labeling yourself as. 


I would not call myself a Vegan because I thought Vegans were cool and walk around eating a steak. Vegas are retarded but anyways if I was going to eat meet I would cease calling my self a Vegan. 



CoS wants to call for a purging of sense. I agree but who is going to determine who is the real slim shady. CoS only recognizes their tribe as relevant to Satanism. Well I think my tribe is too. We may not be incestuous siblings with the same blood as LaVey but we are distant cousins and if they reject that which they do fuck em they will rot away soon enough. 


If you are going to call yourself a Satanist you need to be morally aligned with the basic principles. TST have taken a couple of statements from LaVey, pulled them apart and put it back together so it would be more digestible for the masses especially the Left political SJW. If you are gonna work outside of the philosophical established beliefs of a religion ... the you are not that religion. Dont call yourself a Jew if you are a Muslim. 


I will say it worked quite well and they had a fair amount of success. Unfortunately their weird pedo goat did not go up. But it never will it is just a big ass bronze pawn that they can push around. THAT I do support. 

Funny fact. TST claims they raised 90 percent of 70k from crowd sourcing. LIE. I was there as a chapter head of TST in Portland. They did raise about 25k from crowd sourcing . They got the other 50 k or so from a sizable Jewish organization to complete the monument. Of course they keep that on the DL. 


So i think it is funny as fuck that Jews are funding Left wing activist who are pretending to be Satanists to troll the fuck outta Christians. Surprised no one has asked  why TST only targets Christians and not Jews... well now you know an soon everyone else will. 


The future of Satanism is being refaced as we speak. TST wants it to be LGBT leftist SJW political activist who know nothing about Satanist or have any desire too. 

CoS and ToS want to keep the high poo-bah status of the dominate Satanic organizations but are at a lose on who to deal with TST stealing the lime light. 


1970'S Satanism is dying ...so are the creators of it. Evolution is not always in the direction we wish it to go. 


So..hope that long winded rant cleared up a few things. 


Here is my friend and former minister in TST resignation video and why from the TST singer in the death metal band Vital Remains Brain Werner 






Here is TST recent documentary . You all should see it. 


The Forum post is edited by Owner/Admin Aug 22 '19
Anna
Anna Aug 22 '19
OK. Could you give a name of that "sizeable Jewish organization" which co-funded TST monument?
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment Aug 22 '19

Queer Side of Spectrum Anecdote/Opinion


The most angry I have ever been at something on TV or Film was the movie that ALS dude (Not Stephen Hawking who lived 5 decades with it, but the one that died in 5 months) gave to the world, God Is Not Dead.  That sick little movie essentially convinced every dumb fucking Duck Dynasty demographic retard that it is their right (and duty) to force their beliefs on others, especially non-believers. 


I don't care how fucking SJW and non-satanic they are (Zach is correct there) they do wonders to kill this religious provenance bullshit. It's the balance to the saved with god on their side. 


Technically, taking either side is totally mundane, but it is also not fun. Regardless of current bedfellows it is an extension of the republican/democrat dynamic. 


While the (Libtards/SJWs/TST/ACLU) followers couldn't be further from browncoats (in style), they can be seen as milquetoast provocateurs, which could be beneficial, even if they somehow succeed in rewriting the popular conception of Satanism. 


IMO, it's a shame the enemies of the enemies are mostly white nationalists, but Satanism is totally ill-defined and ultimately up to what the practitioner sees in society and can't help but defying. 


In the end, and in my opinion, it really seems like mostly a sexuality thing.  


Strait side of spectrum -  STFU you whiny zionist SJW fags. Do you feed solely on attention?

Queer side of spectrum - Remember when Homosexuality was in DSM? Be used to it. 


The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 22 '19
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment Aug 22 '19
And yet Satanic commentary, especially sussinct opinions, can be read and immediately identified.  Must be like magick, or at least a literary smell. 
The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 22 '19
Anna
Anna Aug 23 '19

I meant it wasn't to be taken seriously as a religion or a belief. I wonder why anyone in their right mind would treat Satanism as a religion. Sure, some call it a religion of the flesh, which is dumb IMO. An oxymoron of sorts.


My point is (and always has been) that since there is no strict definition of Satanism and since there is no consensus on what it means to be a Satanist, then any discussion about who is and who isn't a genuine Satanist is pointless. Moreover, it implies orthodoxy as if there was one correct way of doing this.

Anna
Anna Aug 24 '19

OK so what is that strict definition of Satanism? Even if we ask everyone here or elsewhere what or who Satan is, there will be plenty of interpretations. Why? Is this really because most people don't like what Satan stands for? Or is this, perhaps, that the word, itself, doesn't have a strict meaning but has evolved for centuries? Is Satan a man of SIN, a symbol of evil, an adversary of the faithful or Milton's tragic hero? Is "he" a gentleman or a pig? A liar and a schemer or a heroic rebel? What is actually Satanic? Standing against the status quo or using it to your advantage?


Now let's consider the name "Church of Satan." Did LaVey mean to create an actual church, with rules and dogmas and the faithful? If not, then why calling oneself a Satanist and not being in agreement with LaVey's statements should be so offensive to others wearing the label. Sure, LaVey is dead and we cannot ask him what his actual intentions were... and this is what makes his philosophy even more open to the whole variety of interpretations.

Zach Black Owner
Zach Black Aug 24 '19
This is what it aint Anna..


And this is what it has boiled down to. More than half of Satanists are gay transexuals. I said it in that tranny thread recently some did not believe me so here is it from the source. I have no issue with LGBT community at all. But, when 
1.. your organization is not satanic inspite of a sprinkling of Satanist.

2 Unfortunately TST according to the public perception and media represent the satanic population although we were here about 50 year before TST
And finally and lastly before I make this a novel again, just because TST appeals to LGBT community and the majority of the organization is LGBT does not make them Satanists for two reasons

TST has little to do with Satanism

And ones sexual orientation is a personal preference not a philosophical one.


https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/08/23/the-satanic-temple-is-in-favour-of-equal-rights-for-lgbt-people/?fbclid=IwAR3WYIcnxHKRhpzbAXVZoo4npMPRayUaPSR1ZBnKZpyGReGYVCSLd9BOgGw

Anna
Anna Aug 24 '19

@AK and Zach,

The topic is TST are NOT Satanists. I don't have a vested interest in defending TST actions. But even if I also think that they are faggoty attention seeking whores, I'm asking why they are NOT Satanists. And yes, words have a meaning. That meaning has a history. So here is the question for Zach.


Satan is a biblical character. In the Old Testament, he's an adversary of God's chosen nation, Israel. In the New Testament, he's an adversary of God's new people, that is those belonging to Christ's Church. For centuries, Satan has been a tempter, leading people to sin. Even if we go by the definition given by AK, embracing evil is nothing else than embracing what is regarded as sinful.


It's a fact that homosexuality has always been treated by the Christian orthodoxy as a grievous sin. Supporting it is embracing sin and transgressing God's commandments. Therefore, it is Satanic. Is this a legitimate argument? If not, then why not?


Aren't Satanic rituals a sin of blasphemy, even if they are performed with the sole purpose of getting the media attention? Isn't it Satanic? Isn't it evil if we consider the history of Satan?


Coming back to LaVey, which of his guidelines, specifically, (if you think all Satanists are obliged to obey them) TST has broken?


These are questions open to anyone interested in questioning assumptions because I've seen too many people claiming that TST Satanism is not Satanism but no one has bothered to present sufficient arguments supporting that their claim is anything more than their personal and subjective opinion. Yet, it's usually given as a fact.

The Forum post is edited by Anna Aug 24 '19
Anna
Anna Aug 24 '19

I'm referring to the topic.


You gave a definition (pop culture one), fine. Even if we stick to that, I don't see why TST doesn't fit  in for the reasons already stated.


As I wrote, my questions are open to anyone but I see it's pointless asking.

Owner/Admin
Owner/Admin Aug 25 '19

Quote from Anna

I meant it wasn't to be taken seriously as a religion or a belief. I wonder why anyone in their right mind would treat Satanism as a religion. Sure, some call it a religion of the flesh, which is dumb IMO. An oxymoron of sorts.


My point is (and always has been) that since there is no strict definition of Satanism and since there is no consensus on what it means to be a Satanist, then any discussion about who is and who isn't a genuine Satanist is pointless. Moreover, it implies orthodoxy as if there was one correct way of doing this.

I think the guidelines are pretty clear of what Satanism is written by LaVey in TSB. Now, take temple of Set or another of the dozens of Satanic organizations.  They differ in some respect but have one thing in common  occultism and LHP. Most of them are just alternative off shoot of LaVey. 


TST is so far outta the ball park ti can not remotely be considered Satanism. Given my beliefs can I put a rag on my head and call myself a Muslim ? Does that make me a Muslim. I no jack shit about Islam nor read anything about it nor its sacred teaching or beliefs.. but fuck it I am now a Muslim. Pretty sure that would piss off a lot of Muslims and rightfully so. 


That is what TST is doing . And it worked wonders. A entire new generation of LGBT, goth folk now wear sigils they have no clue of the meaning and walk around shouting shit they are oblivious to .  


For the record I never say Hail Satan. I think it is silly. People say it to me all the time and its awkward. Like when someone puts out their hand to shake yours and you don't. 


Oh yeah. This post got flagged down on FaceBook. SJW snowflakes got me suspended for 3 days. Pussies. I fail to see anything that would violate FaceBook terms in the original post do you ? 

The Forum post is edited by Owner/Admin Aug 25 '19
Anna
Anna Aug 25 '19

Zach, dear, in fact the Temple of Set with all of its spiritual inclinations, is further away from anything LaVey wrote than TST. What guidelines written by LaVey TST has broken? Which ones exactly? And does it really matter? Do you support the CoS policy re the only true and genuine form of Satanism? If Satanism is called a religion of the flesh, the corporeal, then where the hell does ToS fit in?


Now, was sodomy a sin? Is homosexuality regarded as a sin? Is blasphemy a sin? Is it evil? Who defines evil? What does Satan stand for, if not for embracing the "sin", the evil as defined by the Christian doctrine?


Not sure why you got banned. I see nothing offensive in your post. The thing I question is the thesis: TST are not Satanists.


P.S. LHP is all about spiritual stuff and achieving the union with the divine. It has nothing to do with Satanism. Yet another bullshit people take for granted.

The Forum post is edited by Anna Aug 25 '19
OwenDark
OwenDark Aug 25 '19
Satanism as a term has become meaningless but there is a difference between what you call yourself and what you are. Only a Satanist by nature would perform the invocation to Satan and say "I have taken your name as a part of myself". 
OwenDark
OwenDark Aug 25 '19
Quote from Owner/Admin
Now, take temple of Set or another of the dozens of Satanic organizations. 

I would like to point out the fact that SoT does not proclaim themselves as Satanists. They are like the sect of the horned god a left hand path organisation and the left hand path can includes many different types such as Satanists, Luciferians, dark pagans, dark witches etc.
OwenDark
OwenDark Aug 25 '19
Quote from Anna

P.S. LHP is all about spiritual stuff and achieving the union with the divine. It has nothing to do with Satanism. Yet another bullshit people take for granted.


No, LHP is the ideal of becoming a living god. Many Satanists walks the LHP.
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment Aug 25 '19

Quote from OwenDark Satanism as a term has become meaningless but there is a difference between what you call yourself and what you are. Only a Satanist by nature would perform the invocation to Satan and say "I have taken your name as a part of myself". 


You had me with the first line, but then, like the word "but" itself, you invalidated the first statement with the second one.  


I agree with the first line, and there is also The Allegory of the Chicken to consider. 


For the second line psychodrama is great. You can get pissed, hope they get hit by a train, and then feel better. It's more an expulsion of emotion rather than a genuine belief. 


But then you made a statement in which changing only one word and two phrases suggests an attempt at Christian subversion, or at least a total misunderstanding of Satanism. The phrases changed even keep the same impetus and transpose into like statements.  It uses Satan in the same Born Again/Alcoholics Anonymous like way.  


Only a (Christian) by nature would perform the (prayer to the lord) and say "I have taken your name (into my heart)". 
The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Aug 25 '19
OwenDark
OwenDark Aug 25 '19
Quote from Dark Enlightenment 

You had me with the first line, but then like the word "but" itself, you invalidated the first statement with the second one.  


I agree, and there is The Allegory of the Chicken to consider. 


Psychodrama is great. You can get pissed, hope the get hit by a train, and then feel better. It's more an expulsion of emotion rather than a genuine belief, and one that doesn't fit the following statement.  A statement in which changing only one word and two phrases suggests an attempt at Christian subversion, or at least total misunderstanding. The phrases changed even keep the same impetus and transpose into like statements.


Only a (Christian) by nature would perform the (prayer to the lord) and say "I have taken your name (into my heart)". 

Yes the invocation to Satan and prayer to Jesus are both religious rites and creeds. LaVey codified the satanic religion to give Satanists something to gather around and because of the intellectual decompression in the ritual space (
that removes the critical thinking) it does not matter whatever Satanists are atheists, theists, deists etc. 
The Forum post is edited by OwenDark Aug 25 '19
OwenDark
OwenDark Aug 25 '19
Quote from PlasmoticJezebel Jinkies! it sure was altruistic of Mr LaVey to give us all something to gather around. I'd be nothing without my fellow Satanic brothers and sisters holding my hands.

It was for selfish purpose he did it but selfish acts can also bring positive to others as a result. 
OwenDark
OwenDark Aug 26 '19
Quote from Anna

I meant it wasn't to be taken seriously as a religion or a belief. I wonder why anyone in their right mind would treat Satanism as a religion. Sure, some call it a religion of the flesh, which is dumb IMO. An oxymoron of sorts.


Yes it was... LaVey codified the satanic religion because it was the way to give Satanists something to gather around and cooperates to obtain their individual goals. He called it a religion of the flesh because he could identify his passion for carnality with the character of Satan. Satan is not a biblical character but a mythological character. 

The name Satan is just the hebrew word for for arch-adversary that has appeared in almost every myth. In egypt mythology the adversary is Seth and in persian mythology it is Arihman. Because Satanists do not have the dualistic worldview like the Christians then they can identify themselves with Satan without consider themselves to be good or evil.

The Forum post is edited by OwenDark Aug 26 '19
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