Wolfie's Three nee Five | Forum

Those points sound reasonable. What exactly is "strong, free and clear mentality"?

A clear mentality can think through what must be done. A free mentality can ignore what others would do. A strong mentality can do what must be done.

I've rewritten Wolfie's Five. The intent is still exactly the same, but the use of language is hopefully more effective and efficient.

In this rewording, a lot of the work is being done by the 5th of the five. To really get the message, you have to really think about the 5th.

Satan is the life-force in the senses and instincts.

Satan is the life-force in the emotions and appetites.

Satan is the life-force in the cunning and cleverness.

Satan is the life-force in the ruthlessness and severity.

Satan is the enemy of the enemies of the life-force.

Before I assume what you mean by "life force" and say Satan sounds like Kali, I am going to ask you, what do you mean by "life force"?

I surprised myself when I found myself using the term. It just happened, organically, spontaneously. I didn't know I meant it (or even thought it) until I typed it, and I didn't type it until I was wording the 5th of the five. I had, "Satan is the enemy of the enemies..." - and then all of a sudden I added, "of the life-force." Once I had that, I knew I had to add the concept of life-force to the preceding four, to tie everything together. And then I realized what I was saying. Senses and instincts, emotions and appetites, cunning and cleverness, ruthlessness and severity, all contain within them the organizing force with its teleological capacity.

Aborior, I don't have a rigorous definition for life force, because science still refuses to acknowledge the concept. To me it's obvious there's something beyond chemistry and physics at work in the organism. It's some sort of organizing force with some sort of teleological capacity. Right now this concept is heresy in the scientific community. Perish forbid that a Satanist should be a heretic!

I thought as much. 

I have tried to do the superorganism master-consciousness (Brahman-esque) thing but it fails for me for the same reason it does for scientists that mock your heresy.  It deals with ideas rather than phenomenality and that which can be perceived by the senses. 

It begs me to question "the why" to my phenomenal decision making. Beyond, "I am a broken jackass that makes self-seving stupid decisions that increase my own suffering". To have a greater teleology suggests a Kali character (cosmic order) is somewhere in this showering me with excess so she can take it away when it corrupts an abstract true self form. 

It's too "Atman" for me. 

Satan becomes this: 

I just mean a life-force. A force that brings about life. Life is organization and teleology, even in a bacterium, so a force that brings about life would have to include an organizing principle and a teleological capacity. That's all I mean. Nothing in what I mean would cause me to bring in a full-blown cosmological system like Hinduism. Nor would anything in what I mean be a reason for me to posit some weird antilife or metalife morality. I just mean a force that brings about life, in conjunction with chemicals and physics. What is life? For a human, life is the senses and instincts, and the emotions and appetites, and the cunning and cleverness, and the ruthlessness and severity. Anything that tries to negate those things is antilife, and anything that tries to transcend those things is metalife, and both are the enemies of the life-force, which makes them the enemies of Satan.

Satan is Id and Ego putting Superego to death in defiance of Superego's social supports.

No mention of the life force, but that's probably better, because my concept of an organizing principle with teleological capacity will almost always be a distraction from other, more important concepts.

I can add a second Freudian sentence:

Satan is Id and Ego working out a mutually satisfactory balance of power.

And then one more sentence, less Freudian than the first two:

Satan is the affirmation of life and the denial of all that is antilife or metalife.

Wolfie's Three.

....I just mean a force that brings about life, in conjunction with chemicals and physics. What is life? For a human, life is the senses and instincts, and the emotions and appetites, and the cunning and cleverness, and the ruthlessness and severity. 

Fair enough. And I did read way too much into that.

Organizing principle behind the phenomenal existence of an organism, including bacterium, argues intelligence proceeds material in some way.  

My opinion is that everything is in reference to the material. Biological life doesn't stay in its form for millions of years. It's acids that became single celled organisms and so on... Single cell organisms that reproduce without teleological directive to do so.  It just acknowledges its own cellular breakdown through division and reproduction. The only thing separating it from dust is an ability to move in reference to thermodynamic processes, or acknowledge it own Half-Life through replication. 

I think it emerges from and only exists within an evolved biome.  Anywhere life arose from the material it's going to follow similar pathways for reasons that also do not require a directive. And take a very long time to do so.  It took until oxygen (3.5 billion) years for multicellular life. If it's a teleology, it's a very slow moving one. 

Is self preservation or even mitosis evidence of a "life-force" for biological life? I personally don't think so any more than I think evolution is part of a greater teleology. 

Can I prove it?

No. So difference of opinion here.

This ALWAYS seems to be the "I agree with 90% of what you said" disagreement. For me anyway. 

That 10% of "form proceding material" is still to too Atman for me. I feel the organizing principle is extraneous to the equation. The existence of self-preservation does not explicitly denote a prior intelligent principle for behavior, it only implicitly suggests one may exist because we observe commonality in behavior. 

* I gotta edit these first.

I think the life-force is information, numerical in nature. That's what I think is missing in the current scientific paradigm. There's a missing dimension of information. I intuitively feel the missing dimension, but I can't verbalize its contours.

I think the life-force is information, numerical in nature. That's what I think is missing in the current scientific paradigm. There's a missing dimension of information. I intuitively feel the missing dimension, but I can't verbalize its contours.

Where do you think it (the quantification) will arise? 

I see it's possible occurance in the "interphase" of cellular mitosis.  A set command to undergo the split. 

Interphase is the portion of the cell cycle that is not accompanied by gross changes under the microscope, and includes the G1, S and G2 phases. During interphase, the cell grows (G1), replicates its DNA (S) and prepares for mitosis (G2). A cell in interphase is not simply quiescent. The term quiescent (i.e. dormant) would be misleading since a cell in interphase is very busy synthesizing proteins, copying DNA into RNA, engulfing extracellular material, processing signals, to name just a few activities and things.

I asked Google a simple question, "What causes a cell to prepare for mitosis?".  And the only answer I can find is, "because it does".  This seems like the hard problem of consciousness under a different name.  Trying to explain why green looks green and find that missing information. Why this electromagnetic input is perceived by the mind the way it is. Qualia. Or what commands the cell to start replicating its DNA in initial mitosis phases. Still, "because it just does" is the only answer i can find.  That's not good enough, but maybe that's my problem. 

Maybe it just does without need for prior cause like the existence of the universe itself? Maybe the missing information is there's no missing information. It just came from nothing and you have reached the end point of prior causation. 

If there is a life force or inherent will for biomechanics (and eventual teleological Lucifer principle behavior) that same command would need to cover all similar missing information in a like way, including why the universe has all other forces the way it does. This absolutely asserts a Master and grand cosmic architect is responsible for the form.  Satan as the "organizing principle" for biogical life to act in its cosmic image of survival and adversity. This in place of that being only an observation of something that is driven by the environment and entirely a material process. Something that mirrors the thermodynamic physical laws it's cells are subject to without those laws needing to be encoded by a conscious force. 

String theory covers this with superpositions and higher dimensions. A parameter to include "all possible laws of physics" in dimension 7 or 8, and that is not pulling shit out my ass. It has to occur in every way possible because all variations and laws are covered in the math. So it is sorta already quantified as a necessary superposition of "all possible physical laws".  

And Maybe like you said, we just haven't discovered "the acausal law of replication" yet? 

In its most solipsistic and exterme form, "existence is inherently acausal and the reality of what we percieve is an aberration within the imagination of ourselves".

What is the simulated weather in Denmark, Tom? 

There's a lot to unpack (or decompactify) here. 

And I had to clear up my own hard to understand point. And it only took 3 hours!

" I just mean a life-force. A force that brings about life. Life is organization and teleology, even in a bacterium, so a force that brings about life would have to include an organizing principle and a teleological capacity....

....I just mean a force that brings about life, in conjunction with chemicals and physics. What is life? For a human, life is the senses and instincts, and the emotions and appetites, and the cunning and cleverness, and the ruthlessness and severity." 

A life-force or maybe, in other words, a will to life or even a will to power as the regulatory principle underlying differential force relations and/or arising from differential force relations, and moreover including a teleological capacity in its design or reason to be.

To reify such a will should be avoided, as pure Becoming rather than Being, as pure timeless presence, is the ground within which this will emerges and displays itself.

This is very close to the satanic ontology I subscribe to. For me: will implies intention, intention implies a subject, but it is an absolute subject. But to draw on Freud, as per above – this subject is completely unconscious. That absolute unconscious subject to me is Satan.   

To the extent the life-force exists, it is Satanic. Nothing is more Satanic than life.

Matthew1, my words, "teleological capacity," are an attempt to get at something analogous to a will. I stop short of simply saying "will" because, as you say, a will implies a subject, and my intuition stops short of positing a subject. 

The life-force may be a set of principles, and Id and Ego may be among them. (Not Superego. Superego is artificial.) But if so, I'll expect these principles to be somehow numerical.

Freud’s Three:

Id is the pleasure principle.

Ego is the reality principle.

Superego is the morality principle.

Wolfie’s Three:

Satan is Id and Ego putting Superego to death in defiance of Superego’s social supports.

Satan is Id and Ego working out a mutually satisfactory balance of power.

Satan is affirmation of life and denial of all that is antilife or meta-life. 

• with planet in habitable zone • with magnetosphere  • with liquid water  • and all the things that need to be correct for life to even begin to take hold.

"The laws" may be written by the inherent hostility of what it takes to be biological life.

Even bacterium has to overcome a lot to exist to multiply. First the cosmic drake equation and then micro-environmental drake equation.

What if it just is adverse because there isn't a regulating force and everything has to fight the environment in some way, which is at most a "default form".  It's such a energetic free for all, I cant rule out the only balance being when I plot it's entirety and draw a line down the median point of the data. 

I can't rule it out as an extraneous idea that speaks to a need that really doesn't need to be fulfilled.

But I'm a minority in Satanism I am finding.

An antitheist in a world of Magi where laws are written by the acausal universe. 

Organized systems in nature seem explicable to me. As you imply with your reference to transfers of energy, the laws of thermodynamics probably eventuate biochemistry to a great extent. But by what mechanism would a big pile of chemicals hunger, lust, thirst, want? Sure, we know the hormones that get secreted, and the regions of the brain that get activated, but the process flowchart for all of that would have this one box with the caption, "And then a miracle happens," and then the next box would have the caption, "Feels Desire."

Maybe my use of words has been backwards. It occurs to me that desire is the life force. The life force is desire. Take away desire and the organism may have life but it won't have force.

The life force doesn't cause organisms. Organisms cause the life force. Organisms eventuate desire. But by what mechanism? No one has the slightest fucking idea. Hormones hit some neurons, and then a miracle happens.

The point is, no one has the slightest fucking clue how hormones hitting neurons cause the organism to feel desire.

I knew it would come to this. I tried to warn you.