Satanism is occultist | Forum

Cornelius Coburn
Well these hidden forces, some may be placed in a scientific context, and there are an entire spectrum of those which are most often acknowledged in a mundane sort of way, and there are other 'forces' or (ritual) facets which are more abstract, such as intent.


I know that my thoughts are able to initiate electrical impulses that are capable of animating various body parts, but the part that is uncertain is how this manifests at its' origin, which is to say, I know that it works, but I just don't know how, or maybe I do, but have nothing scientific to offer up so keep it to myself as something akin to my own UPG.


So perhaps it can be said of other phenomena as well, where you may elaborate a 'description' of 'how' it works, but are unable to articulate an 'explanation' of how it works.


I'm not really an advocate here one way or the other with respect to these hidden forces, or however you may refer these gray areas, and would be more concerned with the altered states which are obscure as well although my experience is a better fit for that sort of thing.

Dark Enlightenment

Quote from Cornelius Coburn

I know that my thoughts are able to initiate electrical impulses that are capable of animating various body parts, but the part that is uncertain is how this manifests at its' origin, which is to say, I know that it works, but I just don't know how, or maybe I do, but have nothing scientific to offer up so keep it to myself as something akin to my own UPG.


So perhaps it can be said of other phenomena as well, where you may elaborate a 'description' of 'how' it works, but are unable to articulate an 'explanation' of how it works.

I couldn't do that. Be fine will just accepting something works. 


I look at it like this. 


The animals purpose is to survive it's environment, thrive, and reproduce. 


Because it exists in an objective material manner it needs positional awareness. The sensory organs are this positional awareness.  We simply couldn't live without some microprocessor to take the input through our sensors, and then decide the most appropriate action. Consciousness exists because you need to eat. 


We approach this not dissimilar from computer programs with a (MATERIAL) primary directive to survive. We take input and apply it to whatever dynamic situation we are in and pass through true/false logic gates.


You will take in the sensory input of this thread and pass through the following logic gate:  


True: respond to comment

False: respond to comment.


 If true you will then choose any one of all applicable answers including total non-sequitors. I can't predict what you'll answer with, but I can surmise; 1. You will answer, 2. That answer will address the topic. 


Where your "consciousness comes from" is the real-time response to the sensory input of reading my answer. It needs to exist to respond, and does not exist without neural cells to oscillate or whatever Blossom says. 


This both rules out determinism and free will. You can't do whatever you want and you can't predict the ultimate outcome. 


I agree with the statement any "hidden forces" are confined to the mind of the individual and cannot change the objective. No more "being" than any computer program taking the data and choosing the most beneficial responses based on its learning algorithm. A program that genetics and life experience writes. 


In the end, consciousness exist because of the material. 

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jun 29
talisman
talisman Jun 30
Are you imposing is there anything immaterial? Because anything immaterial falls into the category of religion. 
Wolfie
Wolfie Jun 30

Quote from talisman Are you imposing is there anything immaterial? Because anything immaterial falls into the category of religion. 


Wolfie
Wolfie Jun 30
Dark Enlightenment, information processing exists because we need to eat. Consciousness is a different story. Information processing can exist without consciousness.


Cornelius Coburn
Honestly Wolfie, I don't see why anything should exist at all. I see absolutely no reason why the default state of existence should be anything but eternal nothingness.


It's all too familiar, but one can't help but to keep returning to this 'chaos' every so often.

Wolfie
Wolfie Jul 2
CC, my own hypothesis is this: Eternal nothingness was never an option. Eternal thingness has always been the only reality and the only possibility. We can posit eternal nothingness in our minds as an idea but that idea does not signify anything in objective reality or objective possibility.




Dark Enlightenment

Quote from Wolfie Dark Enlightenment, information processing exists because we need to eat. Consciousness is a different story. Information processing can exist without consciousness.



Clarification: what people consider that mystifying part of consciousness, the "where did it come from?" part, to me is like asking where radio signals come from as you are looking at the transmitter. 


I feel the "experience", the phenomenal experience, is entirely without (non material) self. No mindstars, no souls, no essences, no eternal consciousness, nothing beyond what is organically grown. 


The question people always get stuck on is "Why do people feel the way the feel?"  They say it's the unexplained part of consciousness. Really.


I think it's a requirement of being multicellular organisms made up of solid elements. You need to have a phenomenal existence to eat. 


Does a vegetable person have experience or phenomenal awareness? Can they live without being force fed? 


I'm still wondering where their undying essence and self goes.


#teamanattā


*** And yes, even with that said I can't disdpute biological life has a predisposition to multiply where ignious rock does not. There really is no answer, so I can't answer it yet. 


It's only organic material that follows these survival rules. Still not ready to insert a universal chi though where it could be something quirky like the handedness of panspermic amino acids. In this universe it happens by a matter of statistical probability. It doesn't speak for the universe where there is no dividing organic life. 


It is that way because it has to be. 

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 2
Wolfie
Wolfie Jul 2
But you don't need a phenomenal existence to eat. All you need is information processing. Eventually we'll have robotic dogs that perfectly mimic real dogs, right down to the sloppy slobbering. They won't have phenomenal existence. They won't be conscious. But if you throw a ball, they'll fetch, tails wagging, eyes open extra-wide, ears up. It'll just be fake.


None of the foregoing is an argument for mindstars or whatnot. It's simply an acknowledgement of consciousness as a bona fide aspect of existence that rhinos have and Rolls-Royces don't, along with the question of why it is that rhinos have it. After all, Rolls-Royces engage in information processing. They have onboard computers that never stop computing.


I say being alive and being conscious are the same thing. That's my hypothesis, and yes, I know that means grass is conscious. I'm OK with the notion of grass being conscious. Not rocks or tables or television sets, but grass, sure, why not? I'm not saying it's self-aware or creative or empathic. Just conscious. Meanwhile the internet will never, ever be conscious, because it's not alive.


Dark Enlightenment, you've been saying life is conscious because it needs to be. I'm saying both less and more than that. I'm saying life and the state of being conscious are the same thing. To be alive is to be conscious. To be conscious is to be alive.





Dark Enlightenment
I think we may be on the same page and my wording is misleading. 


I meant "to eat" in the context of "to live phenomenally", or just "to live". 


Conscious waveforms produced by biological transisters we  only think is a mystery because we can make decisions towards better food. And that is baffling because things have qualia for some reason. 

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 2
Cornelius Coburn
Ultimately there isn't any distinction between energy and the material. The energy appears to be more of a means to an end resulting in various material manifestations, but not the other way around.


Energy is more akin to consciousness than it is matter. Material manifestations seem to be more the result of what is done with this conscious energy and the manner in which it manifests itself.

The Forum post is edited by Cornelius Coburn Jul 2
talisman
talisman Jul 3
I think that "thingness" is the state of the conscious being, as very thoroughly described above. What is "thingness" is the continuous interactivity which leads to many and different implementations. Energy flows through matter, or rather it is part of it. Matter is energy and ultimately, the manifestation of energy is the change of matter. 

   If you want to go a little bit further, it's the same matter and the same energy, that manifests in many different ways. What changes is the interpretation, not matter and energy. It is what it is.

Wolfie
Wolfie Jul 4

Quote from talisman I think that "thingness" is the state of the conscious being, as very thoroughly described above. What is "thingness" is the continuous interactivity which leads to many and different implementations. Energy flows through matter, or rather it is part of it. Matter is energy and ultimately, the manifestation of energy is the change of matter. 

   If you want to go a little bit further, it's the same matter and the same energy, that manifests in many different ways. What changes is the interpretation, not matter and energy. It is what it is.


talisman
talisman Jul 5

Quote from talisman I think that "thingness" is the state of the conscious being, as very thoroughly described above. What is "thingness" is the continuous interactivity which leads to many and different implementations. Energy flows through matter, or rather it is part of it. Matter is energy and ultimately, the manifestation of energy is the change of matter. 

   If you want to go a little bit further, it's the same matter and the same energy, that manifests in many different ways. What changes is the interpretation, not matter and energy. It is what it is.


beware
beware Jul 5
you're all wrong and equally retarded congratulations 


prove me wrong

Wolfie
Wolfie Jul 5

Quote from beware you're all wrong and equally retarded congratulations 


prove me wrong


One down, one to go.


Dark Enlightenment
I analyze behind the troll. 


Even if it's a troll it carries a sick  holier than thou disease with it. It doesn't stay in its own habitat. I don't create accounts at Idiotswhoaremystifiedbystatistics.com and tell them they're retarded. This one goes into other people's habitats with that belief and tells them what ideas apply to them. Even half serious armegeddon ideas. 


Even in troll form it highlights how religious shit entitles folk to prattle on like a sage of spirit fucked sanctity and righteousness. 

Christianity needs to fucking learn to stop saving people. Its adherents need to stop weeping for the unbaptized AIDS babies, wretched, and get this "god=truth=our right to save you" shit out of their heads.

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 5
Wolfie
Wolfie Jul 6
Dark Enlightenment, you give beware more credit than I do. I just assume he thinks he's super-funny. Also, like all trolls, he sees himself as playing a game of chicken with the moderator.. "I'll keep being obnoxious for as long as I can and see how much I can get away with before the moderator swats me like a bug."


I don't mind the wacky personas like Oracle (who presumably is the same clown as beware). Oracle is roleplaying an imaginary being. I actually find him mildly entertaining. I also found beware mildly entertaining when he was playing the same game as Oracle. (He was pretending to be Galactus to Oracle's Silver Surfer.) But when he comes onto the forum and says belligerent shit like "You're all wrong and equally retarded" then he crosses the line and loses any entitlement to a respectful response.


beware
beware Jul 6
I am super friendly! I love this community! :D 

To be honest, I was really drunk when I posted that and I'm so grateful to hear your true feelings about me everybody. =)

clearly i was trolling last night, but it tested my reputation. 


Really, a swell time here with you all, compared to the people on my forum (The Oracle Forum). 

Lucifer, the God of this world, surely is pleased by your continuous ignorance and praise! 

The Forum post is edited by beware Jul 6
Satanist since more than a decade

Quote from talisman Well, satanism is occultist by their origin, occultism is blasphemy, thus making a point. 
"The Occult" refers to hidden practices and knowledge. 
It does not necessarily imply blasphemy. 

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