Death and the Dead | Forum

Infernal Acumen Member

Allow this Forum topic to be any and all things dealing with Death and the dead in the context of the Left Hand Path.

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One of my Facebook connections in the LHP community shared his ceremony of the time-honored tradition of giving respect to the those who have passed away. How do you give reverence to the souls that pass from our physical realm into the great void of the spiritual realm?


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Phil_Lopian
Phil_Lopian Sep 20
One thing that irks me about Satanism and Satanic forums and Satanists is that the term/phrase "Left Hand Path" is used very often, but nobody bothers to precisely define it. It's left nebulous. And when you leave something nebulous, anybody can shove and fit any idea and sentiment and view into it. Such as the practice of ancestor veneration, which predates the so called "Left Hand Path" [Occidental Occultism], "Vama Marga" [India], "Left Hand Qi Gung" [Chinese] by 100,000 years, since the Koi San venerated their dead ancestors. 


The veneration of ancestors - also called "ancestor worship" can be found in pretty much any indigenous culture on earth. In most cultures, including my own, ancestor veneration is just a part of the over all culture. It has nothing to do with a right hand or left hand path. If we were slugs, we'd have no hands to have paths. If we were centipedes, we'd lave 100 legs, and so there would be more than a right hand or left hand path. It's a logical fallacy which I dislike called the Fallacy of False Dilemma. 


I can personally deal with dead people. People grow old and die. It's natural. 


It's when people start talking about "souls," and the "spiritual realm" that things get goofy and stupid:


1. What is a "soul?"

2. What is a soul made from?

3. What or who or how did the stuff that makes souls come into being?


4. What exactly is meant by "spiritual?" Define that word/concept presicely.

5. Where is this spiritual realm?

6. Is this spiritual realm finite or infinite?

7. What is this spiritual realm made out of. It's fundamental building blocks. Like we can say that protons, electrons, and neutrons are the building blocks of the physical realm.

8. How did this spiritual realm come into being?


There are 8 questions. Every answer a person can produce, speculate, make up for each question, adds sentimental and conjectural Assumptions. 


The more assumptions there are, the more it defies the Law of Parsimony, otherwise also called "Occam's Razor."


In short, that Universal Law states that the most simplest answer to a question, with the least amount of assumptions is the most likely answer. 


What does objective simplicity - sans conjectural assumptions - say about death, the dead, souls, and the spiritual realm?

The Forum post is edited by Phil_Lopian Sep 20
Aborior Translatione

Quote from Infernal Acumen

Allow this Forum topic to be any and all things dealing with Death and the dead in the context of the Left Hand Path.

-

One of my Facebook connections in the LHP community shared his ceremony of the time-honored tradition of giving respect to the those who have passed away. How do you give reverence to the [PEOPLE] that pass from our physical realm into the great void of [NOT EXISTING ANYMORE]


I post a memorium and move on. I really don't get too distraught either. Something we all do. The bereaved come together and remember in their own way. Occaisionally I'll adhere to someone else's form of bereavement and drop off a store bought cheese plate. 


My feelings on Death are best summed up in Macbeth: 


Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.






The Forum post is edited by Aborior Translatione Sep 20
Aborior Translatione

Quote from Phil_LopianOne thing that irks me about Satanism and Satanic forums and Satanists is that the term/phrase "Left Hand Path" is used very often, but nobody bothers to precisely define it.
I have attempted this and it has been mostly rejected, but I'll try again. 


Path of attainment - I define that as what a person needs to do or cannot do to fulfill themselves.  The predominate method of the society is given the RHP designation.  Tibet and Arkansas have a noted divergence on what this is. 


And this is the only way I find it consistent. 


To incorporate Satan you are incorporating the Western (Arkansas) version of the path most travelled. That version is "spiritual". It is Abstract. It is grand design vs. real time. It is the superstitions of divine occurrence and need to believe in ideas. The fulfillment comes through the ideas of enlightenment in your head. Generally making it the center piece of your path. And if the "ritual chamber" is the center of your praxis, you're doing it wrong. 


That is the status quo of attainment. 


To employ a heterodox praxis in Western society must involve a rejection of using faithful ideas as anything of merit. 


For this reason the LHP in the West is antitheistic where religion is concerned and anarchistic where greater goods are concerned. The adversary rejects unnecessary authority, ideological slavery, and compulsory faith.


I believe it manifests in the personality as a mutation to nature. The hard part to prove is nomian ideals are part of genetic memory in need of behavioral mutation. There's some studies to back it up, but its still unproven. Like all mutations, if it is beneficial it becomes increasingly dominant.  If its beneficial in a certain percentage it maintains that percentage. This is how shit shifts and orthodoxies are born (or made). 


I also think the mutations are in line with defiant personality disorder. The impulse to stay standing where everyone takes a knee in trending protest as matter of genetic predisposition. And in a society of rigid nonbelief it manifests as spirituality. It's a need to defy any status quo it is subjected to. 


** Elephant in the room noted. An idea about people having ideas. 

The Forum post is edited by Aborior Translatione Sep 20
Nutzack Mendez Esquire

Quote from Aborior Translation
I post a memorium and move on. I really don't get too distraught either. Something we all do. The bereaved come together and remember in their own way. Occaisionally I'll adhere to someone else's form of bereavement and drop off a store bought cheese plate. 


My feelings on Death are best summed up in Macbeth: 


Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.


I completely agree.  Lights out and that's all she wrote.  You are awesome. I love you. Let's get together and go farm sheep in Idaho. 
Cornelius Coburn
Individuality appears as illusion; different perspectives of the same thing.


- the Hydra

donot
donot Sep 21
I like that comment about individuality, you see what you're talking about is this, individuality. Otherwise it makes no difference. What passes is this. Everything else is coming back. There's historical events and memoires, but the real persons are absent. Someone could say nothing is real, in the sense that it is temporary. In a way reality itself is changing and is prompt to annihilation. What we know is susceptible to change, not in a way that it could be wrong, but that it could be eradicated and extinct. 
Berardo Rodriguez Member
One day a religious missionary who went to the most isolated parts of Africa and tried to evangelize some natives , asked them :"How do you honor your dead?", , they answered him:" We honor them by eating them up and when we digest them, we just pupu them on some flowers ". There are too many ideas about this topic, most of the great religion always try to make people to believe that their 'idea " is better than the rest,  I don't follow their concepts about the Death and the dead,  to me,  we are just material that will die and will be transformed into something else ( dust, ashes,  dung, hamburgers,  etc.)  my soul is my life  and like a candle  expires when the fire is off  , so it will be finished when I die . Therefore,  I enjoy my life (soul) now that I'm living,  the dead had their opportunity, and they are gone . I like the way Dr. LaVey said it:" Death is the greatest abstinence ", I don't honor any dead people,  I honor the living one,  I don't fear the dead,  I'm careful of the living , this is me, I could be wrong or I could be right  , I don't care,  I'm happy by having my own understanding about this subject. 
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Sep 21
I see no reason to honor the dead because they are gone... If we assume reincarnation is true then it's no longer the same person. Our personality is shaped by our relations and experiences in life, so when we die and reborn a new personality will be shaped through new relations and experiences.
The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Sep 21
Phil_Lopian
Phil_Lopian Sep 21
I joined a strange religion/culture which is entirely based on The Dead. [redacted]
The Forum post is edited by Phil_Lopian Sep 26
Dantalion
Dantalion Sep 21
@Phil_Lopian
Very interesting. Those Ngangas look really cool!
Aborior Translatione

Well that certainly fits the Wikipedia definition for LHP in Rural Oregon.  And probably Cuba too. Very extreme in comparison to status quo. 


Good tradition for a forensic entomologist, coroner, or person who cleans up a drug addict's apartment after they OD and rot for two weeks. Or people who like dismembering the neighbor's dog in the woods behind the house. 


I like some viewed gore, but the smell of dead things is not something I could acclimate myself too. Shownomerrcy.com desentized me to everything but years ago. So I could watch videos of the practice in its most disgusting state, but having the full phenomenal experience would be too much.  


It appears you've found the world's most disgusting mojo bag.

The Forum post is edited by Aborior Translatione Sep 21
Phil_Lopian
Phil_Lopian Sep 22

Quote from Aborior Translatione

Well that certainly fits the Wikipedia definition for LHP in Rural Oregon.  And probably Cuba too. Very extreme in comparison to status quo. 


Good tradition for a forensic entomologist, coroner, or person who cleans up a drug addict's apartment after they OD and rot for two weeks. Or people who like dismembering the neighbor's dog in the woods behind the house. 


I like some viewed gore, but the smell of dead things is not something I could acclimate myself too. Shownomerrcy.com desentized me to everything but years ago. So I could watch videos of the practice in its most disgusting state, but having the full phenomenal experience would be too much.  


It appears you've found the world's most disgusting mojo bag.


I think I'm the only one into Palo out here in rural Oregon. It might not be a great idea to tell the locals :)


Many years ago, before I ever got initiated into Palo, I had watched a few videos on the Aghori of India, out of fascination. Two things stuck in my mind about the aghori: that they rubbed their bodies with crematory ash, and that they ate dead body parts. It was so grotesque and disgusting that it was fascinating. 


When I got into Palo, I saw a few similarities between the two. Palo uses crematory ash also, and you do consume parts of corpses in the form of concoctions made powdered human remains. Seeing the corpse powder in Palo remined me of a scene in one of the aghori documentaries where this aghori took ash of a dead human, and mixed the ash with water to make dough, and then made a kind of bread with it and ate it. 


But of course Palo and the Aghori Tradition are very different and unique in their own ways. But both seem obssessed with the Dead, to the point where they have made religions of it. 


You're right, an nganga is a very gross mojo bag, a big one! 



Anna
Anna Sep 23

"You can tell a newbie who just got initiated into Palo, because after sacrficing animals and handling rotting flesh, they'll ask to wash their hands with soap and ask for hand sanitizers. My Godfather gets upset and says things like: "Dude this is fucking Palo! Not some fucking mariconeria. What do you think you got yourself into!? I can eat fucking tacos with my hands right now." And everybody would laugh."


I'm not a hygiene-obsessed twat washing hands every five minutes but the refusal to use soap after handling rotten flesh and, especially, rubbing dirt into open wounds - this is asking for trouble. 


Do they, at least, clean or change the razors or whatever they cut you with? Or do you just literally share the blood and anything that could be there?


On the topic.

Here, apart from caring for family graves, we have a custom of wearing black clothes for the prescribed period of time. I never obeyed that because it's silly for me. I see enough of the death at work. No need for me to make it into some kind of a fetish. I have an acquaintance who is an eternal widow living with the corpse of her husband. Metaphorically. Although he's been dead for about 5 years now, she's still grieving, always talking about him. His shadow always accompanying her. It's counterproductive in my opinion. Clinging to the past makes you blind to the new opportunities in life. It's like Lot's wife looking back over her shoulder at the burning Sodom. The old has to be buried to make place for the new. And although I think that suppressing grief is terribly unhealthy, there should come the time when you let it go and "let the dead bury the dead."

The Forum post is edited by Anna Sep 23
Phil_Lopian
Phil_Lopian Sep 23

Quote from Anna

"You can tell a newbie who just got initiated into Palo, because after sacrficing animals and handling rotting flesh, they'll ask to wash their hands with soap and ask for hand sanitizers. My Godfather gets upset and says things like: "Dude this is fucking Palo! Not some fucking mariconeria. What do you think you got yourself into!? I can eat fucking tacos with my hands right now." And everybody would laugh."


I'm not a hygiene-obsessed twat washing hands every five minutes but the refusal to use soap after handling rotten flesh and, especially, rubbing dirt into open wounds - this is asking for trouble. 


Do they, at least, clean or change the razors or whatever they cut you with? Or do you just literally share the blood and anything that could be there?




In America each initiate gets their own razor. But there are poor communities in places like Mexico and Cuba, etc, where the temple-houses would only have a few old razors to share. Some types of ngangas require mercury: you should see how they handle that! It makes me very nervous. 


They "clean" the razor by spraying rum at it, and spraying rum at the places they will be cutting you. 


The people in that video aren't doing it right. The actual point of getting the cuts is to draw your blood, which is then collected and placed into your Godfather's nganga; the designs are a secondary objective. Those guys in the video didn't cut the initiate right. When they cut me, I had blood from every cut dripping down to my hips and stuff. Another thing wrong is that the person holding the Candle Light must/should be female, not a man. Usually your Godmother is the one who holds the candle. It's considered "mariconeria" [faggotry] for a man to hold the candle when a man is being cut into Palo, because the Light and the person holding the Light is symbolically giving birth to you, and a man can't give birth. 


There seems to be this "machismo" culture prevalent in Mexican culture, and so, being that the majority of Palo temple-houses [in America] are Mexican, people act tough and shame you if you are a weakling and afraid to handle rotting animals and ask for soap afterwards. The guys make fun of each other by calling names like "maricon," "princess." It's effective. It makes everybody try to look as macho and tough as possible.


There is a whole filtration process of weeding out weaklings. Before you get initiated you get a couple interviews by the Godparents, and get invited to a few basic rituals of feeding the the ngangas of the Godparents. So they make you help hold the animals being sacrificed, show you how to dismember the animals and make you go ahead and dismember the body, and then you clean the bloody mess up. It's a test to see if you are tough enough - if you have the stomach and intestinal fortitude - to do basic things like that in Palo. If not, you get rejected.


 

The Forum post is edited by Phil_Lopian Sep 23
donot
donot Sep 23
Are you sure this wasn't a show for the tourists? You know, things are not what we see. 
Anna
Anna Sep 23

"In America each initiate gets their own razor"


This is OK then. While rare bacterial infections can be treated, this HIV shit is gross.

donot
donot Sep 23
 Bacteria is not a virus. And not all viruses are the same. The HIV virus can infect a variety of kinds of cells. That is a different case. The genre of the virus is different, generally is a capsule containing genetic material, which capsule is generally differentiated, making the use of a vaccine practically impossible. 


΅What makes vaccines efficient is teaching the immunity system to attack harmful micro organisms, including harmful viruses. This way of teaching is purely chemistry, which in the case of viruses is their capsule - remember their genetic material is rna, monoclonal genetic material which can be found inside healthy cells. So the target is their outer capsule.


What we're talking about is that, no immunity defense can be built against the HIV virus so far. 

The Forum post is edited by donot Sep 23
Cornelius Coburn
I don't know if this is correct or not, but it feels right. I've had two serious bacterial infections that I survived without medical intervention, and I'm under the impression that this strengthens the immune system in a general sort of way, even if subsequent infections are viral as opposed to bacterial, they are all in the category of microorganisms, and I assume the defense mechanisms are very similar.


I believe my last illness was covid, but it was very mild, so much so, that I barely remember it.

Cornelius Coburn
The two bacterial infections that I acquired via cat bites made the corona virus seem like a walk in the park.
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