Get Satanism on Cracked.com! | Forum

johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Nov 3 '14
My fellow diabolical fiends,


In my continuing interest in bringing Satanism a more "benign" image, I've been in contact with the humor website, Cracked.com, for a week or two now. Been writing to Robert Evans, whom, if you read Cracked.com regularly, specializes in articles in the nature of "X things I learned doing Y".


I approached them for an article about Satanism, and he showed some interest. Given Cracked.com's list based humor (where they list X number of things about Y), I proposed the following list:


5. We don't sacrifice animals (We think animals are a poor choice of sacrifice, compared to say an orgasm).

4. We don't kidnap little children (Our doctrine is specific about the value of children)

3. We don't rape or steal (Because indulgence, not compulsion).

2. We don't try to convert anybody.

1. We don't worship the devil.


He got back to me, and told me that to have an article,it needs to focus on things that are surprising to someone who ISN'T full of misconceptions about Satanism. No. 1 and 2 are workable, but not 3, 4 and 5.


So, let's discuss what I should propose to him. Go!


P.S. >> The discussion of whether or not Satanism should have a more "benign" image is one for another day. I know some of you disagree with my goals here. But please set that aside for now.

Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Nov 3 '14
How about -

5) We don't worship Satan (not even the theistic ones really worship, for the most part)

4) We don't proselytize

3) The sheer abundance of Satanic groups and philosophies

2) We're not all gloom and doom, and are for the most part cheerful, normal looking folks

1) We probably know more about Christianity than most Christians do

Knievel74 Member
Knievel74 Nov 8 '14
Why would you want Satanism to seen benign?
Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Nov 8 '14
Not benign specifically, but just cure people of their misconceptions.


I get reeaaalll fucking tired of people trying to tell me what Satanism is when they don't even understand that it is primarily atheistic. Real fucking tired of being called a theist or even a Christian.


People should understand what the hell Satanism even is, and *then* decide if it's benign or not.

JasinElric
JasinElric Nov 8 '14
It may be some weak form of Stockholm Syndrome or something, but I rather enjoy the misconceptions by the mediocre.  I only really tell people who know me moderately well that I'm Satanic, and based on their knowledge of who I am vs their understanding of Satanism, the look on their faces are priceless.  Explanation is a real buzz kill on my end, and I'm pretty sure it's a bit of a let down to them, too.



(Misconceptions obvious detriment to those involved in a movement aside)

The Forum post is edited by JasinElric Nov 8 '14
johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Nov 9 '14

Quote from Knievel74 Why would you want Satanism to seen benign?

Because many Satanists are not 14 year old kids trying to seem hardcore to their friends. Many of us have jobs, wife, kids, a mortgage, etc. And having our religious beliefs inadvertently discovered can have severe consequences on our lives beyond the opinion of our friends.


That is why.

JasinElric
JasinElric Nov 9 '14

Quote from jonnywatts 

Because many Satanists are not 14 year old kids trying to seem hardcore to their friends. Many of us have jobs, wife, kids, a mortgage, etc. And having our religious beliefs inadvertently discovered can have severe consequences on our lives beyond the opinion of our friends.


That is why.

Isn't that where responsibility and accountability come into play?  I mean, Satanism is not a fluffy thing that the world will ever understand.  Why not just be more selective with whom you divulge such information, and provide explanations when confronted?  I've never heard of anyone losing a job over being Satanic, only people who fear the possibility.


I don't know where you currently reside, but in the US, you cannot be discriminated against because of religion.  That's kind of a big deal here.

Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Nov 9 '14

Quote from JasinElric
Quote from jonnywatts 

Because many Satanists are not 14 year old kids trying to seem hardcore to their friends. Many of us have jobs, wife, kids, a mortgage, etc. And having our religious beliefs inadvertently discovered can have severe consequences on our lives beyond the opinion of our friends.


That is why.

Isn't that where responsibility and accountability come into play?  I mean, Satanism is not a fluffy thing that the world will ever understand.  Why not just be more selective with whom you divulge such information, and provide explanations when confronted?  I've never heard of anyone losing a job over being Satanic, only people who fear the possibility.


I don't know where you currently reside, but in the US, you cannot be discriminated against because of religion.  That's kind of a big deal here.

I've been fired for less. At-will employment - In most states you can be fired for just about anything with no repercussion. They don't even have to give a reason for your dismissal. 


The point is, Satanism is surrounded by so many lies, rumors, and hideous misconceptions, that you end up having to hide who you are from all but the closest of friends. It gets pretty old real quick. It makes it hard to do anything related to Satanism for fear of being exposed to people who would judge you and make trouble for you. 


I'm an out and open kind of guy. I don't like hiding things. If you ask the right questions, you can read me like a book, and I like it that way. I don't like hiding who I am, and I resent that it is a necessity for so very much of my interactions with the world.

johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Nov 9 '14

Quote from JasinElric
Quote from jonnywatts 

Because many Satanists are not 14 year old kids trying to seem hardcore to their friends. Many of us have jobs, wife, kids, a mortgage, etc. And having our religious beliefs inadvertently discovered can have severe consequences on our lives beyond the opinion of our friends.


That is why.

Isn't that where responsibility and accountability come into play?  I mean, Satanism is not a fluffy thing that the world will ever understand.  Why not just be more selective with whom you divulge such information, and provide explanations when confronted?  I've never heard of anyone losing a job over being Satanic, only people who fear the possibility.


I don't know where you currently reside, but in the US, you cannot be discriminated against because of religion.  That's kind of a big deal here.


Well, then you've obviously never been in a position of power over others in a company. Yes, totally illegal to discriminate based on religion. But if I want someone gone, he'll be gone, with whatever reason I want to make up. A common one would be, "Your job performance isn't up to mark", the "mark" being whatever imaginary standard I want to make up.


Basically, when I fill in the paperwork after firing you, it won't say "Fired for being a Satanist". It'll say "Fired for poor job performance".


Besides, it makes no sense to continue working in a hostile environment. Said hostility can come from say, your deeply Catholic boss finding out you're a Satanist.


Satanism itself is not a fluffy thing. But will the world ever understand it? Yeah. There's hope. Consider the Republican party. Their ideology lines up very closely to Satanism. Self-responsibility, accountability, individual independence, etc. They just don't have the word "Satan" associated with them. Considering that they just won Congress while espousing pretty Satanic ideals, it's just a matter of getting the term "Satanism" dissociated with devil worship.

The Forum post is edited by johnnywatts Nov 9 '14
Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Nov 9 '14
Ech. Let's not pin Satanism to a political position. That's the last thing we need. 


Any given party or position is going to have "Satanic Ideals" and have ideals that go against Satanism, depending purely on which Satanist you ask. 

And besides, the Repubs already have a reputable name. They more or less control the current political atmosphere, and are symbols of the status quo. The question is irrelevant to them, as the issue is not what we are, rather what people think we are. 

johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Nov 12 '14

Quote from Khandnalie Ech. Let's not pin Satanism to a political position. That's the last thing we need. 


Any given party or position is going to have "Satanic Ideals" and have ideals that go against Satanism, depending purely on which Satanist you ask. 

And besides, the Repubs already have a reputable name. They more or less control the current political atmosphere, and are symbols of the status quo. The question is irrelevant to them, as the issue is not what we are, rather what people think we are. 


By no means was I advocating for Satanists to vote Republican. They are, afterall, also deeply hypocritical, and that's the antithesis of being a Satanist.


However, you cannot help but have a chuckle at the overwhelming Christian message they're trying to envelope themselves in, but yet their ideals are so much in line with Satanism.


Quote from luz I am disappointed that I didn't get a comment on my reply above, maybe it was too long-winded. Here it is the same but slightly short.
--
How could anyone write a list with absolutes about Satanism when Satanism is so diverse?

Satanism includes an extremely diverse and 'weird' group of people.  And now here anyone trying to define Satanism or put a 'face' to it must decide if they will be excluding some Satanists so that their definition could fit the group they are describing.

Maybe a better approach is 1) admitting that there are various Satanic groups, and 2) writing a list of misconception about a specific Satanic group (i.e. atheist, LaVeyan, etc.)

Hrm, let's try this list then:


3. There are many of us, and none of us can agree what Satanism is. (Short description of atheistic vs theistic)2. We don't try to convert anybody.1. We don't worship the devil.


We'll need more material though.

Knievel74 Member
Knievel74 Nov 14 '14

Quote from Khandnalie Not benign specifically, but just cure people of their misconceptions.


I get reeaaalll fucking tired of people trying to tell me what Satanism is when they don't even understand that it is primarily atheistic. Real fucking tired of being called a theist or even a Christian.


People should understand what the hell Satanism even is, and *then* decide if it's benign or not.

I get your point. But some people will always have an ignorant view on it no matter how much it's explained to them.
Knievel74 Member
Knievel74 Nov 14 '14

Quote from jonnywatts
Quote from Knievel74 Why would you want Satanism to seen benign?

Because many Satanists are not 14 year old kids trying to seem hardcore to their friends. Many of us have jobs, wife, kids, a mortgage, etc. And having our religious beliefs inadvertently discovered can have severe consequences on our lives beyond the opinion of our friends.


That is why.

Then you need to be smarter about keeping your beliefs a secret. As I said to Khandnalie not everyone will understand.
johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Nov 15 '14

Quote from Knievel74 
Then you need to be smarter about keeping your beliefs a secret. As I said to Khandnalie not everyone will understand.

Or, I can do what I can to bring positive PR to Satanism, and help shape public perception of it.


There was a time when being Wiccan would get you in some shit, because in the 90s Wiccans were seen as Satanists (and not Satanists as we know it, but the devil worshipping kind). Look where they are now. While there remains some misconception about Wicca, it's largely no big deal to be Wiccan these days.


I wish to do the same for Satanists. Not because I'm trying to be the grand poobah of Satanism, but really because I don't want to have to keep my religious beliefs a secret. I have so much that I'd like to contribute to the community, and having to constantly choose between say, my job or my religious beliefs, is a pain in the ass.


This is about self preservation. If me, and others doing the same work as me, are successful in our endeavor, then we no longer have to keep it a secret out of fear. And fear is no way to live for a Satanist. We are, after all, all here because we rejected the fear an arbitrary authority projects upon its subjects. 


Why else would you advocate being "smarter about keeping your beliefs a secret"? It's fear. And we Satanists need to conquer that fear if we are to live a fulfilled life.

Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Nov 15 '14

Quote from jonnywatts
Quote from Knievel74 
Then you need to be smarter about keeping your beliefs a secret. As I said to Khandnalie not everyone will understand.

Or, I can do what I can to bring positive PR to Satanism, and help shape public perception of it.


There was a time when being Wiccan would get you in some shit, because in the 90s Wiccans were seen as Satanists (and not Satanists as we know it, but the devil worshipping kind). Look where they are now. While there remains some misconception about Wicca, it's largely no big deal to be Wiccan these days.


I wish to do the same for Satanists. Not because I'm trying to be the grand poobah of Satanism, but really because I don't want to have to keep my religious beliefs a secret. I have so much that I'd like to contribute to the community, and having to constantly choose between say, my job or my religious beliefs, is a pain in the ass.


This is about self preservation. If me, and others doing the same work as me, are successful in our endeavor, then we no longer have to keep it a secret out of fear. And fear is no way to live for a Satanist. We are, after all, all here because we rejected the fear an arbitrary authority projects upon its subjects. 


Why else would you advocate being "smarter about keeping your beliefs a secret"? It's fear. And we Satanists need to conquer that fear if we are to live a fulfilled life.

*raises glass* Hear hear!



JasinElric
JasinElric Nov 16 '14
I agree, jonnywatts, but I think there should be an accompanying, emphatic explanation in said endeavors that Satanic views vary, often times on a massive scale.  Clearing up common misconceptions is all well and good, but it becomes detrimental to many when new misconceptions arise by doing so.


As an aside, fear is not what motivates me to keep my beliefs a secret from the masses.  There are numerous reasons I choose to do that.  For one,  I lose my upper hand if they know what I'm up to.  This is a good example of clearing away a misconception to simply birth a new one.

The Forum post is edited by JasinElric Nov 16 '14
johnnywatts Chapter Head
johnnywatts Nov 17 '14

Quote from JasinElric I agree, jonnywatts, but I think there should be an accompanying, emphatic explanation in said endeavors that Satanic views vary, often times on a massive scale.  Clearing up common misconceptions is all well and good, but it becomes detrimental to many when new misconceptions arise by doing so.


As an aside, fear is not what motivates me to keep my beliefs a secret from the masses.  There are numerous reasons I choose to do that.  For one,  I lose my upper hand if they know what I'm up to.  This is a good example of clearing away a misconception to simply birth a new one.


I seriously doubt keeping your Satanism secret is in any way giving you an upper hand.


For example, the Bible is available online, and free to the public. A large chunk of our population claims to adhere to the tenets set forth within it.


It doesn't mean that people in general even know what's in the god damned Bible, even if they profess a certain religion closely tied to it. "Judge not, lest ye be judged"? Totally ignored.


So I don't think letting people know you're a Satanist in a future where it's okay to be a Satanist will take away any advantages from you.

JasinElric
JasinElric Nov 17 '14
jonnywatts,


My point was that if you're going to Spread The Word, so to speak, about Satanism, it's best to emphasize that all Satanist's views vary a lot.  Basic understanding of Satanism is simple enough to explain without throwing around the "We believe/We don't believe" shit.  There is no fucking "we".


When Satanism becomes a fully established belief system of tenants to which I do not adhere, I then have to hide my title as a Satanist, because I am not what you, nor any organization can codify.


If you're an Atheist using Satan as a meme to take down the weakest of all Abrahamic religions, at least be honest about what you are, and what you're doing.


I don't condone Christianity, but I can, at the very least, see they are FAR from the greatest danger to free-thought.  If you're going to attack Abrahamic religions that ACTUALLY pose a threat to such freedoms, why not grow some balls and criticize the ones beheading people who disagree with them?  Or how about the ones doing an Ethnic Cleansing in the middle east who have nothing but support and sympathy from the U.S.?  What makes these nutless retards with "GOD HATES FAGS" signs a higher priority?

Khandnalie Member
Khandnalie Nov 17 '14
Jasin kind of has a point - the Satanic 'we' is kind of not really a thing. Satanism is intensely hard to pin down like that. There isn't really a universal aspect of Satanism that applies to all Satanists. Many attributes one person considers Satanic, another won't. 


The language should probably be along the lines of "most Satanists" or "many Satanists" etc etc. 


There's hella variety in Satanism.

JasinElric
JasinElric Nov 17 '14

This is how I'd phrase it:


Satan is the adversarial force in nature that Satanists observe, embrace, and use in various aspects of their lives, generally, but not limited to the pursuit of self-preservation.  There is no complete understanding of Satan, just as there is no complete understanding of Gravity.  All Satanists have differing political, religious, and philosophical views.



There really isn't all that much to Satanism when it all boils down.  Everything else is subjective add-on.  Misconceptions are going to happen unless an all inclusive belief system is established, otherwise you'd have nothing to argue about.

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