SpiritWhite mentioned in a thread that she had read the Satanic Bible in pdf form so I thought I would check it out. I haven't finished it yet... But I have a few questions...
Reincarnation? Do Satanists not believe in reincarnation? I am open to it as I was able to cut through to the core of a couple of issues in my life and completely obliterate them by retrieving some experiences from the nothingness in deep meditation. I admit, that I could have been simply communicating with my subconscious and I merely interpreted it as past life. I have also had a couple of proper visions, like movies. And they weren't anything monumental, just mundane, brief recollection.
I heard that Satanists believe in accepting consequences for one's actions? I tend to view Karma as a physics thing in that it is a directional energy thing... Are you somehow negating your Karmic consequences? Rising above them?
And I can't remember what the other question was. Damn! I will have to come back with it. : )
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Hartnell
Oct 25 '15
"Reincarnation? Do Satanists not believe in reincarnation?"
Satanists don't have beliefs like that. Satanism isn't so much a set of beliefs as principles which can be applied usefully.
Most of the beliefs of religion are echoed in Satanism but are brought down to Earth in a way which is productive. For example, what use there in believing in an afterlife? All it does is set up a frame of thinking that what's important is in some astral dimension. In other words, belief in heaven and hell only serve as a distraction from your life happening right now.
"Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams."
It's the same for belief in "God". Believing in a god who has power over someone's life only serves as a distraction from what's really important -- empowering yourself to live your life the way you want.
"1. Life is the great indulgence - death, the great abstinence. Therefore, make the most of life - HERE AND NOW!
2. There is no heaven of glory bright, and no hell where sinners roast. Here and now is our day of torment! Here and now is our day of joy! Here and now is our opportunity! Choose ye this day, this hour, for no redeemer liveth!"
"The Satanist realizes that man, and the action and reaction of the universe, is responsible for everything, and doesn't mislead himself into thinking that someone cares. No longer will we sit back and accept "fate" without doing anything about it, just because it says so in Chapter such and such, Psalm so and so - and that's that! The Satanist knows that praying does absolutely no good - in fact, it actually lessens the chance of success, for the devoutly religious too often sit back complacently and pray for a situation which, if they were to do something about it on their own, could be accomplished much quicker!
The Satanist shuns terms such as "hope" and "prayer" as they are indicative of apprehension. If we hope and pray for something to come about, we will not act in a positive way which will make it happen. The Satanist, realizing that anything he gets is of his own doing, takes command of the situation instead of praying to God for it to happen. Positive thinking and positive action add up to results."
It's one thing to be curious and speculate about reincarnation, and another to accept it as a belief 'just cause' it's a convenient explanation. Frankly, I think that most of the people who believe in past lives use it as an excuse to daydream about a better life they supposedly had because their current life isn't going so well. I mean, how many people can have reincarnated from the soul of the same famous person?
My point is belief in reincarnation sets someone up to miss out on the lives they're living now, just the same heaven and hell do.
So, that's it in a nutshell. Here's a movie scene which clearly illustrates what is meant by the statement "Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!"
The Forum post is edited by Hartnell Oct 25 '15
Hartnell
Oct 25 '15
"I heard that Satanists believe in accepting consequences for one's actions? I tend to view Karma as a physics thing in that it is a directional energy thing... Are you somehow negating your Karmic consequences? Rising above them?"
Yes, absolutely. Accepting consequences for your actions belongs to that far-off and near impossible to reach mystical plane sometimes referred to by it's darkened occult super-secret names known only to the most sincere of Satanic initiates and spoken of only in hushed tones. Those names, rarely spoken among Satanists in public are: "being responsible" and "pragmatism".
Use these names with caution. For they have great power unknown to most ... it's a power they simply can't handle. They have such power that most people run away in great fear after hearing them -- after which they seem to disappear out of existence entirely! (At least until the the need for using the words has disappeared itself.)
The Forum post is edited by Hartnell Oct 25 '15
Member ShadowLover
Oct 25 '15
I agree with you that some people try to gain respect from a life already passed and also agree that they should be more focused on this one.
I think past lives can be useful, though. For instance, I have always made Talismans. Ever since I was a little girl. Because I just didn't grow up in that kind of world I later on assumed it was a past life behaviour that I brought forward - it's just always been a really natural thing to do. Like I feel an inclination to crush and ingest the bones of dead people. But maybe those things are just natural and part of everyone's DNA. I don't know...
So what about the negating Karma thing? Is Karma a self-inflicted curse or is it physics? ...Or both?
I think past lives can be useful, though. For instance, I have always made Talismans. Ever since I was a little girl. Because I just didn't grow up in that kind of world I later on assumed it was a past life behaviour that I brought forward - it's just always been a really natural thing to do. Like I feel an inclination to crush and ingest the bones of dead people. But maybe those things are just natural and part of everyone's DNA. I don't know...
So what about the negating Karma thing? Is Karma a self-inflicted curse or is it physics? ...Or both?
Member ShadowLover
Oct 25 '15
Oh, I just remembered what my other question was...
I've always been one of those very curious people that talk to everybody, and a few years ago I was speaking/interacting with a lot of people who were studying and practicing dark magic and conjuring demons etc. It was just an observation, but I noticed that all of these people had illness in their household, whether it be cancer or diabetes or debilitating depression (as opposed to manageable depression).
Do you think that is a coincidence or were they doing something incorrectly?
I've always been one of those very curious people that talk to everybody, and a few years ago I was speaking/interacting with a lot of people who were studying and practicing dark magic and conjuring demons etc. It was just an observation, but I noticed that all of these people had illness in their household, whether it be cancer or diabetes or debilitating depression (as opposed to manageable depression).
Do you think that is a coincidence or were they doing something incorrectly?
Hartnell
Oct 26 '15
@ShadowLover:"Do you think that is a coincidence or were they doing something incorrectly?"
It wouldn't be too unusual for someone to model and think of their illness or condition in supernatural terms when they didn't understand their symptoms. To speculate beyond that in anything other than a very vague, general sense (farting in the wind, other words) I'd need more data.
What would they be doing incorrectly?
You may be interested in this blog post: Let's Destroy Magick: Then We Be Free!
Hartnell
Oct 26 '15
@ShadowLover:
"I think past lives can be useful, though. For instance, I have always made Talismans. Ever since I was a little girl. Because I just didn't grow up in that kind of world I later on assumed it was a past life behaviour that I brought forward - it's just always been a really natural thing to do. Like I feel an inclination to crush and ingest the bones of dead people. But maybe those things are just natural and part of everyone's DNA. I don't know... "
Personally, I find being able to know that you don't know (as you did) much more useful than having a vague idea as an explanation.
When you start from sincere ignorance, you remain open to possibilities of all kinds and that way you're more likely to notice and accept the relevant and useful information when it comes along.
In contrast, a vague explanation that can't be tested artificially limits your thinking and kind of channels it down a path which can lead to lots of wild goose chases and banging your head up against a wall. They can be useful to think through and question, though. You can get lots of "ah ha's!" that way but that's all I've found them good for -- insight about how you're thinking about something. As a map to navigate by, well, where does the belief in reincarnation lead?
"So what about the negating Karma thing? Is Karma a self-inflicted curse or is it physics? ...Or both?"
Karma is defined in a thousand ways depending on who you ask. So I ask: 1. What is this karma of which you speak? 2. How can I verify it's existence by my own actions and first hand experience?
The Forum post is edited by Hartnell Oct 26 '15
Hartnell
Oct 26 '15
@Frater: "Some Satanists do believe in afterlife and others do not... Your personal relation to Satan (whatever you consider him as an archetype or not) makes you able to do your own studies, your own practices, your own experiences that will form your beliefs."
You seem to have never known the meaning of the word platitude, so, here it is:
"A platitude is a trite, meaningless, or prosaic statement, generally directed at quelling social, emotional, or cognitive unease. The word derives from plat, French word for "flat." Platitudes are geared towards presenting a shallow, unifying wisdom over a difficult topic. However, they are too overused and general to be anything more than undirected statements with ultimately little meaningful contribution towards a solution."
To be clear: I'm saying your argument is nothing more than an exceedingly common platitude.
Member ShadowLover
Oct 26 '15
@Hartnell It wouldn't be too unusual for someone to model and
think of their illness or condition in supernatural terms when they
didn't understand their symptoms.
The people I spoke to weren't making any assumptions, the household illnesses was something I became aware of through conversations with them.
I mean, I can just put it out there... Are there people on this sight that have conjured demons over a period of years and have experienced no serious illnesses in their household???
If there are a few, then I can conclude that their practices were likely not the cause of the illnesses.
What would they be doing incorrectly?
I don't claim to have experience with conjuring and living with demons. Truthfully, I'm not even exactly sure what they are (there are so many explanations). I would think though, that like handling anything with the potential to be chaotic, that certain respect should be maintained. I wouldn't think it is something which one should be flippant about.
Like I said, I'm not experienced. That's why I am asking the questions.
Member Troll
Oct 26 '15
:: I have a few questions {after reading some in the Satanic Bible}...
You named the thread strangely, since your questions aren't about the Satanic Bible at all, but about the beliefs of Satanists. The Satanic Bible is just a book that a Satanist wrote, it isn't something that is required belief bits to which all Satanists must adhere.
:: Reincarnation? Do Satanists not believe in reincarnation?
That question is disconnected from your preface. As others have already said, it's one thing to be written in the book "The Satanic Bible". It's quite another to talk about 'what do Satanists (not) believe in'. Satanism isn't really a doctrinal religion like Christianity is, but you may be able to get a reasonable sociological assessment based on surveys. That is, you're talking about observation at that point, rather than requirement.
:: I heard that Satanists believe in accepting consequences
:: for one's actions{.}
That's a complicated issue, because some associate deception and *evading* the consequences for one's actions with skilled Satanism. That's different than blaming someone else in a whiny sort of way for making one into a victim, but generally your point is sound 'Responsibility to the responsible' or something like that (i just call it 'credit where credit is due').
:: I tend to view Karma as a physics thing in that it is a directional
:: energy thing... Are you somehow negating your Karmic consequences?
:: Rising above them?
There's a problem here of the fact that most Satanists probably think that karma is a false notion of moral culpability with no basis to its supposition -- they don't believe in it. So it doesn't factor at all into their willingness to take credit where credit is due (one meaning for what you're talking about) or to own up to their responsibility for their lives (another meaning).
:: So what about the negating Karma thing? Is Karma a self-inflicted
:: curse or is it physics? ...Or both?
Responding from the perspective that most Satanists probably have: Karma is easily negated since it is a mental or psychological hang-up associated with fake future lives or with a moral universe that doesn't really exist.
:: ...all of these people {who were studying and practicing dark magic and
:: conjuring demons etc.} had illness in their household.... Do you think
:: that is a coincidence or were they doing something incorrectly?
With no more to go on than that, i would scrutinize their methods pretty closely and figure that they were inattentive to detail and holistic living. If you are asking whether practicing dark magic and conjuring demons wrongly will lead to illness and misfortune, while i can see that possibility, i wouldn't presume that this was due to karma, no. I'd be more likely to see it as a consequence of their insufficient precautions and ill-educated handling of dark magical or demon-summoning tools, cleansing afterwards, etc.
The Forum post is edited by Troll Oct 26 '15
Member ShadowLover
Oct 26 '15
Thank you everyone for discussing the questions I had. Your answers have actually been very helpful. : )
Just one more question and I think it is an easy one... When you draw an inverted pentagram, are you meant to start at a particular point and what direction do you go?
Just one more question and I think it is an easy one... When you draw an inverted pentagram, are you meant to start at a particular point and what direction do you go?
Member Troll
Oct 27 '15
"And what the hell is a religious nonbeliever?
"It is our goal to separate religion from superstition. Religion can and should be a metaphorical narrative construct by which we give meaning and direction to our lives and works. Our religions should not require of us that we submit ourselves to unreason and untenable supernatural beliefs based on literal interpretations of fanciful tales. Non-believers have just as much right to religion—and any exemptions and privileges being part of a religion brings—as anybody else."
"It is our goal to separate religion from superstition. Religion can and should be a metaphorical narrative construct by which we give meaning and direction to our lives and works. Our religions should not require of us that we submit ourselves to unreason and untenable supernatural beliefs based on literal interpretations of fanciful tales. Non-believers have just as much right to religion—and any exemptions and privileges being part of a religion brings—as anybody else."
-- https://www.vice.com/...f-the-satanic-temple
"Unmasking Lucien Greaves, Leader of the Satanic Temple"
July 30, 2013
Shane Bugbee
(accessed 10/27/15)
The Forum post is edited by Troll Oct 27 '15
