The Satanic Temple are not Satanists | Forum

"Esoterica" simply means that there are two faces of a teaching in a given group/sect: an outer and an inner. The outer teaching is for people not belonging to the given group/sect. The inner teachings - called the "Mysteries" [as in Mystery Schools] in ancient classical pagan times - were secret interpretations or secret meanings saved for those who are in the group/sect. And so Jesus once said in the Bible:

And so, in ancient times, in the Christian religion, there were secret interpretations to what the Bible taught openly. That would be called the "esoterica" of such a Christian religion. 

By its very definition, it is not possible to logically talk about "esoterica" minus a group/sect, because esoteric means the private or secret meaning/interpretation of ideas, similes, symbolism, allegories, parables, of a group or sect. 

An good example would be the Jewish Tanakh which has open/overt teachings, but such Jewish religion/sect has secret interpretations of the Tanakh which we today refer to as the Kabbalah, Gematria, etc. And so, the "Kabbalah" by definition is the "esoteric" teachings of certain Jewish sects: meaning that certain Jewish sects give ideas, allegories, and parables in the Tanakh different meanings and interpretations to their private group of fellow sectarians. 

There can be no "inner teaching" of a group or sect, unless one is speaking of a specific group or sect which has secret re-interpretations of overt and open teachings. 

You have to speak about Esoterica contextually, or the word "esoterica" has no meaning. Because no group/sect = no inner teaching. 

An example: Euclidian Geometry. 

Overtly Euclidian Geometry is a mathematical discipline which studies shapes and angles, and so on. 

But the Freemasons re-interpret Geometry to have a different meaning which they do not openly teach. 

Thus, Freemasonry is the contextual group/sect we are talking about. Therefore, the Freemason's "inner teachings" would be referred to as "Masonic Esoterica." 

The historical context further helps gives clues as to how masonic esoterica is esoterically re-interpreted. The historical context is that, learned men during the Age of Enlightenment had rejected the Bible and its fictional stories, and many became Deists. Many of those Deists found their way into Freemasonry. The first clue is Deism and concepts circulating during the Age of Enlightenment. This was also the period when the Philosophy of Science, Natural Philosophy, and Scientific Empirical Epistemology was born. 

The second clue is the letter G, which is important in Freemasonry. The letter G simultaneously stands for BOTH God & Geometry. Which echoes the world-model of the Deism during the Enlightenment were it was believed that "God" and Nature are one and the same. And so the "esoteric" interpretation of the letter G is that God and the world of shape and form [geometry] is the same thing at the same time. 

From those clues and hints, and context of time and place, you can extract the esoterica of God and Geometry:

That Nature is governed my Laws/Doctrines/Principles, and by Geometry you come to know and understand such Laws, Doctrines, and Principles. Geometry, being composes of the [Greek] words Geo + Metry. Geo meaning Earth/World [gaia] and Metry meaning to Measure. In other words to Measure the World. 

Measure meaning "divided up." Meter meaning "fundamental unit." Which esoterically is to say that: in order to come to learn and understand the Laws, Doctrines, and Principles that governs the Natural World, one must divide up the earth [Geo/Gaia] into its fundamental units/aspects/elements/parts. And in coming to an understanding of the World: you come to understand Nature's God and God's Nature. Hence the Square and Compass. Once called the "Dividing Compasses," and the Square which measures, which is to esoterically say: Divide & Measure. 

And so, in order to talk about Esoterica, you need the context of a given group/sect. 

A simple example of an Esoteric interpretation of Carnal stuff can be found in Tantra, called the 5 Ms: [Panchamakara]. If you are interested in the Left Hand Path, I at least encourage you to read that wikipedia link to the panchamakara. The Left Hand Path - in both India and China - have been associated with Carnality since ancient times. 

Is that embracing the carnal or embracing the idea of the carnal? 

Do we need Dr. Lowenstein? 

** You are the most failed poster on these boards since Moloch/Mollock/Chrode, who was also Danish coincidentally. You should find him. 

You worship the idea of yourself as carnal. Why not actually try being carnal? 

Which brings me to my point again: 

RHP - fulfilling desire WITH THE IDEAS of fulfilling your desire. 

LHP - fullfilling your desires through direct MEANS to bring that about. 

He may be an addict, but he still has the right idea. 

 So much more carnal than imagining having your desires filled.  And it only backfires sometimes. 

Can we discuss the "Esoterica of Satan" in the LaVeyan Variant?

How would one apply the statements of what LaVeyan Satanism says Satan represents outside of an entirely phenomenal setting? 

Do the following have ANY applicability in Gnosticism, or can doing "vital existence" only pertain to doing in a real-world setting? 

1. Satan represents indulgence, instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence, instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom, instead of hypocritical self-deceit! 

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it, instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance, instead of turning the other cheek! 

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible, instead of concern for psychic vampires! 

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification! 

9. Satan has been the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years!

Satanism have only 1 to 2 holidays over the year which would be there the worship of Satan takes place... We then have the rest of the year's days spending on things a Satanist would enjoy. It's like you guys think I have no hobbies in life, no goals, no dreams, no passions, no lust for the flesh. It's crazy that you guys can have such a twisted view on what kind of person I'am...

Based on what I understand of LaVey's Satanic Bible, and my reading comprehension skills:

LaVey's school/form of Satanism does indeed have its Esoterica of Satan. And he speaks that Esoterica quite clearly in simple English for us. 

What LaVey did was take a goofy, mythical character out of the Holy Bible [Christianity], and he re-interpreted this "Satan." To LaVey, "Satan" is a symbol with representational meanings/interpretations.

LeVay's Esoterica states that "Satan" means/represents: indulgence, vital existence, undefiled wisdom, vengeance, responsibility to the responsible, man as just another animal, and the best friend of the church. 

Based on LaVey's re-interpretation, his esoteric meaning of Satan can't be understood to be "spiritual" in any kind of way, because Satan is a symbol of the human being as an animal like any animal. And animals are not spiritual creatures. Animals don't meditate, balance their chakras, practice yoga, etc.

If by "Gnosticism" we mean to say:

Then, no, LaVey's esoterica of Satan, that Satan is a symbolical ideation which represents physical existence of flesh and blood and nature, contradicts "mystical religious doctrines of spiritual knowledge."

Mystical religious doctrines of spiritual knowledge would challenge the Statement of Undefiled Wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit. By definition, when you believe in things you cannot prove, when you need to have faith in something: you are deceiving yourself, lying to yourself. 

You would argue chlorophyll is an orange pigment if someone you were arguing said it was green. And THAT'S IT.  The source of your fucking passions. 

Hence: you are satanic towards "The Woke World" (despite the shit you get) when you decide to take a position that opposes that branch of pop-morality by taking an extreme and oppositional position. Especially if done to provoke it. And that's by the definition of LHP.  It's a response to an idea being imposed you don't deem valid for yourself. And you respond with your action to "go your own way".  Satanism is the passion that makes you be combative towards that trending ideal.  It's preferring self-directed action over incorporation of the majority ideal. The abstraction is "Woke World Feminist blah blah blah", and it doesn't even matter if it really is. It is a forced ideal to you, and that's all that matters. 

"The Satanic personality trait" is that switch that flips and makes you oppose everything pushing against you. Or oppositional towards a social sheepish ideal you see the masses virally adhering to. 

And sometimes IT'S SO FUCKING DEFIANTLY STRONG you'd argue against someone trying to point out, for your own conceptual benefit, THAT YOUR INTERACTION WITH ALL OF US IS WAY MORE SATANIC THAN THE SHIT YOU TALK ABOUT. 

It's really funny that someone with these OBVIOUS "determined to be oppositional" traits can't relate THAT seetherous passion is the heart of satanism. 

The satanic approach is always to push back with your actions. We shit talk you, and you reaffirm in another thread. Or you counter directly and in opposition. It's not like you respond to our criticisms with a ritual. You just say what the fuck you want. 

And it doesn't even need to be accurate! 

OK. I'll try. Dunno if it's intelligent enough for you but, fuck it, just like Frater, I'm my own judge. And I think this is just your personal and subjective interpretation of Satanism and LHP.

Let's start from the origin, that is Vamachara. From what I read, there is no antagonism between RHP and LHP. They use different methods but the goal is the same, that is the union with the divine. I read that 5 Ms are impure offerings to deities? In Tantra LHP and RHP are compared to two paths leading to the same summit. Indulging in carnality seems not to be the goal in itself but the method of achieving spiritual enlightenment. Sure, I realize the sources, especially Western ones, can be inaccurate, but the East doesn't view the world and the magic in such a dualistic way as the West so Tommy isn't entirely wrong while saying that the LHP is spiritual.

Now you say that " Satanism as LHP in Western normative culture is opposition to abstraction as a mode of personal attainment. It's NOT being wired for nebulous spiritual concepts. Not being wired for dogmas, movements, and superstition. It is the exalting of scientific rationalism and a direct hands on approach. "

But Satanism according to whom? Even if we dismiss Aquino and all the spiritually-inclined folks, mind that LaVey himself was fascinated with the paranormal and giving lectures about the really weird stuff that had nothing to do with "exalting scientific rationalism." Since you mentioned "pathei mathos" and "abstractions", the ONA is full of esoteric stuff that caters to spiritual type of folks. Unless you think that playing the Star Game and chanting or vibrating to summon Dark Gods can produce "real world" results, this is nothing else than the kind of spiritual abstraction. More, such terms as Satanism and LHP are themselves abstractions.

The safest bet would be to claim that Satanism, according to LaVey, is anti-spiritual and materialistic. The LHP in the Western occultism is not even clearly defined. There is no consensus about it, certainly, not about the total rejection of magic, rituals and occult mambo-jambo.

Now, I will make my own bold statement that can hardly be contested:

Satanism as LHP is all about being wired for constantly defining and redefining Satanism and LHP in order to appear clever to others.

But Satanism according to whom?

I love broad overreaching generalizations which hold across the board.  Abstractions = authoritative or herdminded Ideas held and used by a large portion of society.  In the west this most definitely includes an imposed superstition. To glow in the essence of,  "for god and country".  

IMO to apply the adversarial you have to go after the predisposition to enjoy that ideal driven herd.  The adversary has a problem with control memes.  Whatever form they take. Even ones in tiny subgroups, like a Neighborhood association or HOA. 

For example the Chinese can say they are atheist but for that you have to ignore THE RAMPANT folk superstitions, dragons, and 5 acceptable mainstream religions allowed by the true god of China, the people's party. 

A more likely LHP approach in China ends up in a reeducation camp. Because instead of having a problem with forced divinity it has a problem with the censors of strict government control.

But yet again you have a personal stand against an "unnecessary" or "unfair" ideal taking place. 

And the way to satiate that tendency is with direct actions against WHATEVER roaming ideal that is. 

If we consider the entirety of our ideological landscape as part of an ecosystem; ideas need mutation too. I feel there is a genetic across the board trigger of defiance towards authority, and in a percetenage geared solely towards preventing idealogical stagnation. The tendency is to be repulsed by the normative concepts of whatever society they are in.

And when the mutation is beneficial to the landscape it takes hold.  The reason for that new Satanic age could be classified as a rise in the occurance of "Oppositional Defiant Disorder".  

Everywhere trigger:  "the unnecessary ideals of authority".  

Everywhere response: "actions in defiance of that". 

The LHP as an agitator/instigator. Or the LHP as disassociation.  The latter almost always because the former when it becomes personal.  The tendency to disassociate easily becomes instigator. 

** That notwithstanding the droves of people that follow.  They might agree, but in there's still very few Antons for all those sucking off his cult of personality.   

*** And I am fascinated with the paranormal too. I could see myself giving an entire talk about confirmation bias and critical thinking if I discussed it.

A personality type. Definitely. It's called a disorder because it is dangerous to the herd mind. 

The born part is a well of defiant tendency waiting to land on anything. 

Otherwise it's myopic. Satanism can't only occur in countries with the myth of Satan and be anything but made. 

Here's a famous Chinese person with the Satanist personality type. 

His likeness ended up on dorm room walls (ironically) alongside Che Guevara. 

The personality trait is the will to stand one's ground. And he didn't even have to know of Satan to embody it. 

Fair enough.

I would only wish to ask you to clarify whether defiance is the end in itself. Is transgressing abstractions the goal or just the means to the end? With the ultimate aim being transcending those abstractions? Once they are erased from the mind, they become irrelevant. I will explain what I mean like we are at school or something.

Suppose I'm bombarded with this annoying control meme "Don't hurt animals." Most people say they wouldn't hurt animals but they say so because they were brainwashed by the society's moral system. They delude themselves it's their own opinion, their own ethical code but actually it isn't. Because how can they say that killing animals is abhorrent if they never tried it?

So I decide that enough has been enough. I go to the local animal shelter, say I would like to adopt a dog. I take the poor dog home. It's wagging its tail, happy to find the new warm home, not realizing the horrible fate that awaits it. Once safe at home, I kill and skin it and cut it to pieces. Now I must find some proper way to cook it. I think it tastes best when stewed in red pepper sauce. Once it's ready I eat it and aww... it's delicious.

But later on, the remorse creeps in. Oh my Satan! I killed and ate a dog! I'm a bad girl!

But what has been done cannot be undone. The bridges have been burned. Now, for every good person in my neighborhood, I'm a monster, I'm evil. I realize I'm different, I'm now apart from all the good people and no longer bound by their morals. Now that I transgressed the social taboo of killing and eating a dog, it has stopped being a taboo. It's no longer relevant. I don't even need to transgress it again because there is nothing to transgress. My mind is free from the "Don't hurt animals" abstraction. The direct experience replaced it.

The point is that if your mind is truly liberated from all those abstractions, they no longer trigger an adversary in you. Peace after the war.

An educational video:

Sooo... did I understand your point of view right?

I personally don't think it ever leaves.  It can't be refined away by the Buddha. It continues finding ground to show up again.

Simple things like a parent that wants to keep god out of the upbringing of their child being told, "I won't let your child play with mine until you teach him about god".  

All of a sudden dissassociation becomes fire again. 

And that's it, no matter how refined that person is, it is a personal hair trigger away from letting it's opinion known. 

Do they overcome that "bitch said what" trigger? I think they let their opinion known by their actions and explain to their kid what they won't be playing with Timmy anymore. 

Sure the trigger builds some resistance. That's just life experience. But it never goes away. And it will always resurface (no matter how Dukkha resident it is) when the attack is on a person's will.

As Frater said (he can say correct things occassionally), there needs to be a direct threat to self.

For myself I was of your opinion 8 years ago. I said let them fight or waste their time getting riled up over religion and politics. You're just sinking to their level etc etc. 

It all changed when religious and political ideals were pushed and made compulsory for ME. That wad the line apparently. And by the fucking DoD in violation of civil liberties no less. 

I mean I had a trick played on me, but watching a single internet bitch with some privilege peddle my contractor coworkers against me like that was amazing and pretty fucking good. But It also lit a fire against faith that will never be extinguished.  And it desires to spread "anti-faith" still. And I don't see that going anywhere. 

I find the path really never gets to it's end point. Nor is the endpoint really the goal. Walking by yourself seems to be the goal. And i dont think the war ever really ends, nor is it seeking too. And you get more fire resistant as you go, but you can never refine away the adversarial core.