The black house | Forum

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Apr 9 '21
Quote from Singende Säge Yeah while toutin my privacy, I want to explicitly add that:
1. Atheism is fallacy of reason - Can't deny what can't be proved -> agnosticism

2. I'm not following the rational lineage. -> gut feeling rather than thinking too much


Atheism is not denial and agnosticism is not the same as doubt. 

You can be agnostic atheist or agnostic theist. 

Agnostic atheism is to believe gods don't exists and it's impossible to prove or disprove the existence of gods.

Agnostic theism is to believe gods do exists but it's impossible to prove or disprove the existence gods.


Gnostic atheism is to believe gods don't exists and it can be proven.

Gnostic theism is to believe gods do exists and it can be proven.


Personally, I have left the atheist/theist debate because both parts do not see the metaphors and allegory in mythology. 

Hindus seems to understand it as mythological gods are all avatars of the universal consciousness which our subconsciousness is part of also known as Brahman.

The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Apr 9 '21
Singende Säge
Singende Säge Apr 9 '21
What makes you say I don't have an image of Creator in my Mind?



Baphomets Mod
Baphomets Apr 9 '21
TR: I don't like MGTOW.



Huh? I suppose I missed something here? You get on here oh, every couple years after having been banned, gone silent, or deleted yourself. You grab everyone's attention with the big MGTOW blog about how big of a MGTOWer that you are. You delete the threads when you begin to feel moronic. Then you have the guts to claim you don't like MGTOW??!!



TR: I don't want to talk about MGTOW here.



Maybe if your MGTOW thread still existed, folks who want to comment on it would have an appropriate place to do so.


Singende Säge
Singende Säge Apr 9 '21
OK guys, thanks for weekend stress. Some platform music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbCFvtphJu8


Aborior Translatione

Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Singende Säge Yeah while toutin my privacy, I want to explicitly add that:
1. Atheism is fallacy of reason - Can't deny what can't be proved -> agnosticism

2. I'm not following the rational lineage. -> gut feeling rather than thinking too much


Atheism is not denial and agnosticism is not the same as doubt. 

You can be agnostic atheist or agnostic theist. 

Agnostic atheism is to believe gods don't exists and it's impossible to prove or disprove the existence of gods.

Agnostic theism is to believe gods do exists but it's impossible to prove or disprove the existence gods.


Gnostic atheism is to believe gods don't exists and it can be proven.

Gnostic theism is to believe gods do exists and it can be proven.


Personally, I have left the atheist/theist debate because both parts do not see the metaphors and allegory in mythology. 

Hindus seems to understand it as mythological gods are all avatars of the universal consciousness which our subconsciousness is part of also known as Brahman.

What about the Buddhists?


Seriously. Thee 3 universal truths are antitheism in its religious form, taking full issue with Brahman. Gotta say that resonates closer to Satanism for me. 

The Forum post is edited by Aborior Translatione Apr 9 '21
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Apr 9 '21
Quote from Aborior Translatione 

Seriously. Thee 3 universal truths are antitheism in its religious form, taking full issue with Brahman. Gotta say that resonates closer to Satanism for me. 


When Satan in Book of Job questioning Job's loyalty it demonstrates the character of a doubter, so therefore doubt is associated with Satanism rather than anti theism. If you are an anti-theist then you don't doubting your atheism.
Singende Säge
Singende Säge Apr 10 '21
Yep, you can speculate, but it really did not bring any real content as you know. Atheism is logical fallacy, and it  is sad, since most people need myth to work themselvelves properly.
The Forum post is edited by Singende Säge Apr 10 '21
Singende Säge
Singende Säge Apr 10 '21
A-theism as it reads is denial of god. Anti-theism, not m-theism as in might-be-theism.
Singende Säge
Singende Säge Apr 10 '21
I do not want to dwell on this, it doesn't hit the original point, which was that most people need myth to remain vital and that atheism is not a vital rational idea. Or so and so and so. Have a drink guys, while cold reading :)
The Forum post is edited by Singende Säge Apr 10 '21
Aborior Translatione
If both atheism and theism are being qualified as a myth, what is your alternative? The only place these two are equal is the creation of the universe. Apologetics territory.  


Spontaneous creation from nothing? Cyclical cosmology?  That's all that's left not qualifying as myth. Everything else requires the logical chicken/egg fallacy you speak of? 



The Forum post is edited by Aborior Translatione Apr 10 '21
Aborior Translatione

Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Aborior Translatione 

Seriously. Thee 3 universal truths are antitheism in its religious form, taking full issue with Brahman. Gotta say that resonates closer to Satanism for me. 


When Satan in Book of Job questioning Job's loyalty it demonstrates the character of a doubter, so therefore doubt is associated with Satanism rather than anti theism. If you are an anti-theist then you don't doubting your atheism.
I like the Book of Job. His faith was strong. 


What if the parable was reversed? 


Here is a well to do nonbeliever that has everything. Livestock and love. He praises no god except the good fortunes nature and his decisions in life allotted him..


What If Satan bet god no matter how much god punished him for his non-belief he still wouldn't blame a concept that lacks phenomenal existence, such as gods punishment. Still wouldn't repent no matter how bad it got. 


How would you qualify a person beaten into submission still refusing to praise an idea of specious cause and effect? 


They might say something like:


"I will not blame anything but the reality that life is limited, randomly cruel, and exists in real time as observed by the 5 senses. There is always a logical explanation". 



The Forum post is edited by Aborior Translatione Apr 10 '21
Singende Säge
Singende Säge Apr 10 '21
@CM If both atheism and theism are being qualified as a myth, what is your alternative? The only place these two are equal is the creation of the universe. 

(This should be a normal human experience, so no more bad things ever happened to anyone :( )

I think an alternative to atheism/theism is religious selfism, in which you learn that you are a part of universe, built from same particles, born through evolutive process through womb, and your mind is kind of a reflection of part of a lets say.. milky way. After the exit, you learn monkey style.

My natural religious experience doesn't contain Genesis. It is what you get growing up with the woods while falling to love with them. I'm not gonna put natural born visions on an open forum. 

 
The Forum post is edited by Singende Säge Apr 10 '21
Aborior Translatione
Honest question, do you employ any degree of faith to put together your alternative view to theism? Any intuitive causal leaps made. I'm actually curious how the mind is like a milky way and how that relates to the overall worldview. 


Singende Säge
Singende Säge Apr 10 '21
@CM It doesn't relate to faith at all. It is a trouble to try to relate how things are in america I guess. For me, it is as normal as my rare thinking. When it works, its instant or so.
Anna
Anna Apr 10 '21

Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Aborior Translatione

Well, the ones you regard as Satanists.  



Those who actually are Satanists. Being a Satanist is a trait or characteristic. That's why we traditionally states that Satanists are born and not made. The satanic religion is only meant to create and maintain the barrier between the Satanists and those who are not.


You wrote that Satanists are those who can disagree about anything. That they doubt everything. That would exclude the consensus as to what it means to be a Satanist. What if such a person contests or doubts your personal vision of Satanism? You're basically saying here that people can doubt everything and disagree with everything except... your definition of Satanism. That means nothing else than that they must accept what you say or they aren't troo Satanists. Also since Satanists are born not made, they will naturally accept your gospel of Satanism. How that goes with critical thinking? Does it even makes sense?


I will now say something that will probably fly over your head. The barrier you're talking about doesn't exist in reality. It's a propaganda trick used by organizations meant to strike down the competition and ensure the membership loyalty. This is why the Church of Satan calls the Temple of Set pretenders and vice versa. This is why the ONA calls both the Church of Satan and Temple of Set pretenders and this is why both the CoS and ToS call the ONA pretenders. And this is why the CoS refuses to consider TST to be Satanists while TST claims that Satanism is what they claim it is.


This is the message sent to the public and to potential candidates: "We are the only valid Satanic organization. The competition are fakers. Come to us, don't come to them. Listen to us, don't listen to them. "This is also the way to silence the dissent: "Those who disagree with us are fake. If you leave us, say something else than us, you're fake. If you join any other org you're fake." This is especially crucial for the CoS as they are the main interest of the media, scholars and have long been the voice of Satanism as far as the general public is concerned. They also earn money from membership fees. For other organizations, it's the matter of prestige.


The only barrier that exists is between masters and pawns. The masters set doctrines, weave propaganda, design the mythological matrix and gather followers, the pawns obey and follow blindly. Half of Anton LaVey's biography is a legend. The guy liked pulling fairy tales out of his ass and charm the audience with them. He had natural charisma and managed to enchant and fool even his friends from the magic circle. And to this day, long after his death, the fools come to the forums and say shit like: "It's written in the Satanic Bible so it must be true. LaVey said it so be it."


Figure out for yourself which side of the barrier you're on. 

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Apr 10 '21
Quote from Anna 

You wrote that Satanists are those who can disagree about anything. That they doubt everything. That would exclude the consensus as to what it means to be a Satanist. What if such a person contests or doubts your personal vision of Satanism? You're basically saying here that people can doubt everything and disagree with everything except... your definition of Satanism. That means nothing else than that they must accept what you say or they aren't troo Satanists. Also since Satanists are born not made, they will naturally accept your gospel of Satanism. How that goes with critical thinking? Does it even makes sense?


I will now say something that will probably fly over your head. The barrier you're talking about doesn't exist in reality. It's a propaganda trick used by organizations meant to strike down the competition and ensure the membership loyalty. This is why the Church of Satan calls the Temple of Set pretenders and vice versa. This is why the ONA calls both the Church of Satan and Temple of Set pretenders and this is why both the CoS and ToS call the ONA pretenders. And this is why the CoS refuses to consider TST to be Satanists while TST claims that Satanism is what they claim it is.


This is the message sent to the public and to potential candidates: "We are the only valid Satanic organization. The competition are fakers. Come to us, don't come to them. Listen to us, don't listen to them. "This is also the way to silence the dissent: "Those who disagree with us are fake. If you leave us, say something else than us, you're fake. If you join any other org you're fake." This is especially crucial for the CoS as they are the main interest of the media, scholars and have long been the voice of Satanism as far as the general public is concerned. They also earn money from membership fees. For other organizations, it's the matter of prestige.


The only barrier that exists is between masters and pawns. The masters set doctrines, weave propaganda, design the mythological matrix and gather followers, the pawns obey and follow blindly. Half of Anton LaVey's biography is a legend. The guy liked pulling fairy tales out of his ass and charm the audience with them. He had natural charisma and managed to enchant and fool even his friends from the magic circle. And to this day, long after his death, the fools come to the forums and say shit like: "It's written in the Satanic Bible so it must be true. LaVey said it so be it."


Figure out for yourself which side of the barrier you're on. 


The barrier between Satanists and none-Satanists is NOT created by doctrines and ideology. When the high priest invokes Satan and the four crown princes of hell that barrier is made. This is not something different from the other religions. All religions have that barrier. Christians have the church, buddhists have the temple, muslims the mosque, Wiccans have the drawn magic circle etc etc. 


I basically agree what you say about COS and the organizations in general but creating a black house in local area would not be an organization. The Satanic Bible is just an introduction to Satanism that makes Satanists aware of their satanic nature, so if they have read it they would see no reason not to come to the ceremony on satanic holiday because it's human nature to meat with individuals we can identify us self with.

The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Apr 10 '21
Anna
Anna Apr 10 '21
From what I'm aware of, not every Satanist is keen on attending ceremonies, performing rituals and celebrating Satanic holidays. It's quite arrogant of you to assume that your personal imaginings concerning Satanism are the only valid ones. You cite TSB as a gospel but it's clear from your replies that you are actually a theist desperately seeking in this atheistic book some justification for your beliefs. Hence your obsession with a ritual and insisting that everyone should suspend their disbelief. I'm a doubter but TSB says I can indulge in worshipping demons during rituals. So I can stay a believer and still claim I'm a doubter. How convenient.


Look dude, I've been here for nearly 10 years and nobody has managed to come up with a concise definition of Satanism. Let alone the definition accepted, if not by all, then at least by the majority of those who claim to be Satanists. But there have been plenty of debates about what it means to be a real Satanist. In fact, it has always been the most beaten dead horse ever. And for all those years, better and much more intelligent people than you claimed they were the ones who got it and others didn't. Can you possibly come up with more sophisticated fallacious statements than them? I doubt it but you can try to impress me. 

Cornelius Coburn
Cornelius Coburn Apr 10 '21
Quote from Singende Säge
For me the term satanist is equal with individualism, what matters is the devotion to inborn desires.



Yeah I've been saying it for years; it still holds for me: creation is primarily if not entirely about experience(the verb). Some profound things can be very simple; complicated can be impressive but not always right - Occams' Razor, or, E=MC^2 for example.
Cornelius Coburn
Cornelius Coburn Apr 10 '21
Canis likes to bring up M-theory occasionally, but I don't follow it any longer because the element that they refer as the 'bulk' is just another name for infinite space which I believe to be a fallacy.
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Apr 10 '21
Quote from Anna From what I'm aware of, not every Satanist is keen on attending ceremonies, performing rituals and celebrating Satanic holidays.

Some Satanists do not perform rituals at all but still participate in ceremony celebrating satanic holidays or would do it if the had the opportunity.



Quote from Annabut it's clear from your replies that you are actually a theist 

Wrong again, participating in ceremony during satanic holidays has nothing to do with being a theist. If I was a theist/believer I would have no need for intellectual decompression.



Quote from Anna

Look dude, I've been here for nearly 10 years and nobody has managed to come up with a concise definition of Satanism. Let alone the definition accepted, if not by all, then at least by the majority of those who claim to be Satanists. But there have been plenty of debates about what it means to be a real Satanist. 


The reason why the debates goes wrong is because people defines "Satanism" as their personal philosophy. I don't do that because my personal philosophy has nothing to do with the satanic religion. This is what you don't understand with the intellectual decompression chamber (TIDC). Even COS people have demonstrated not to understand TIDC. It's a chapter in TSB that seems really to have been overlooked. 


Quote from AnnaAnd for all those years, better and much more intelligent people than you claimed they were the ones who got it and others didn't. 

When I accuses or exposes pseudo-Satanic people it's not because I disagree with them philosophically. There are many I can identify as Satanists despite I disagree with them about almost everything and I can even hate my "satanic brothers and sisters". Being a Satanist is a trait or characteristic and therefore born and not made.




The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Apr 10 '21
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 »
Satanic International Network was created by Zach Black in 2009.
Certain features and pages can only be viewed by registered users.

Join Now

Donate - PayPal