4's introduction. | Forum

An intelligent and lucid introduction. Welcome. I like your list of philosophers. Am looking forward to reading more of your posts.

Welcome,
You sound very mature as for the person who is only 15.

Yeah you're right. This system of ethics as outlined in TSB should be treated as a set of guidelines rather than rules. I don't think LaVey advocated extreme egoism, considering he also advocated responsibility, indulgence but not compulsion. It's egoism but within certain limits; the limits of responsibility so that you don't destroy your own life and the lives of people you care about.

General reply:

Anna: Indeed. Narcissism for example, is quite destructive. I think humans are less naturally egotistical than LaVey seems to state in his writings. I do not see a problem with someone sacrificing themselves for a larger "social organism", as long as that's what they wish to do. Self preservation is undeniably a very important part of our psychology though, and I do think that different people have different levels of empathy and ego. To sum it up, I think people should follow their instincts regarding their own personal empathy levels and values rather than adhere to a strict philosophy of altruism or egoism. I personally tend to act more selfishly than not.

Greg: My story isn't all that interesting or inspiring, but sure. I was never raised under a religion, or any ideology for that matter. The only other time that I've ever identified with a single philosophical label is when I was about ten, I considered myself a Buddhist. Aside from that, my ideas throughout my life haven't really been categorized into easy to understand religious titles, and I don't really want to walk you through every single idea I've had throughout my life. I was a deist when I was very young because everyone else believed in god, but that quickly changed and I've been an atheist since then. Early last year I came across the church of satan's website, where I learned about the philosophy and decided that I agree with it. I suppose I was still a satanist prior to that, but I didn't find out there was a religion/philosophy that I could use to describe my views in one simple term until then. The only thing that LaVeyan satanism introduced to me, was social Darwinism (which I agree with). I hadn't read the satanic bible (and other literature) until later, but still identified with the label based on what I could gather from the internet...not sure what else to add to "my story." I feel like I've filled it with too much fluff already.

These replies were written hastily. They read fine to me now, but there still may be errors. Please excuse them.

"If a person does something that is altruistic because he or she wishes to do so, then that person is acting selfishly. It's less about a tendency to fuck people over for personal gain and more about recognizing that every action, regardless of how many people it affects or benefits, is self-motivated. I would say that egotism in human behavior is more natural than the recognition and acceptance of its role in our individual behavior patterns."

I agree that altruism is done because it may feel good, which I suppose you could call "selfish," but the emotions derived from altruism do not indicate self benefit. Psychological egoism fails to explain the instances where people actually do sacrifice themselves for others without asking (or implying) for compensation. Of course, most people are probably lying when they say they "love everyone and unconditionally want to help those in need."

Psychological egoism doesn't explain those instances because they don't exist. Every action is the result of a conscious choice, and no choice is without self-benefit. In the case of those who sacrifice themselves for others, they receive the emotional gratification, however briefly, that their sacrifice might have saved or otherwise benefited a person about whom they care. Whether or not someone says or implies they expect compensation does not change the fact that in some form, it is received, whether it's a paycheck, feeling good, or an avoidance of consequence. As I said, it is unnatural to recognize self-benefit as a motivation behind one's actions, but failure to recognize it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I agree that all (genuine) altruism causes emotional satisfaction, and that this is the primary reason we do it. I'm saying that the emotions are just an incentive to get us to be altruistic, not the primary reason.

I think that depends on one's relationship to the person(s) for whom one is performing the action. If it's someone about whom one cares, then that care is probably the primary motivator, but if it's a stranger, then the gratification will most likely be the primary motivator.

I recommend you write your own thread with your introduction, If you want to be known to other members.

Done already. Now I'm taking the next step :P

Ah, you've posted it before mine. I figured you were newer than that.