Severity | Forum

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 10 '21
Quote from WolfieWhen I accomplish this, I BECOME SATAN, as Anna so eloquently explained. 

If you are a Satanist then you are already Satan cause he is your ego externalized within the ritual chamber because of the intellectual decompression that makes you psychologically projecting (which happens in all religious rituals and ceremonies). What the Powers of Darkness really are is unknown and the point is that it does not matter because it's what they brings to the table of the ritual or ceremony that matters. 


Anna
Anna Jul 10 '21

Quote from Tom Riddle
If that was the case LaVey would just have made the rituals like those in TST... Greater Magic consist by western hermetic teachings... 

OK. Since I'm a total dumbass when it comes to hermeticism, I will now accept a position of a student and let you enlighten me.


Please point out the parallels between TSB and hermetic tradition. Don't forget to cite the sources, I mean the primary texts. I'm genuinely curious.

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 10 '21
Quote from Anna 

OK. Since I'm a total dumbass when it comes to hermeticism, I will now accept a position of a student and let you enlighten me.


Please point out the parallels between TSB and hermetic tradition. Don't forget to cite the sources, I mean the primary texts. I'm genuinely curious.


LaVe was primary influenced by the occultist Aleister Crowley... 
The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 10 '21
Anna
Anna Jul 10 '21

Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Anna 

OK. Since I'm a total dumbass when it comes to hermeticism, I will now accept a position of a student and let you enlighten me.


Please point out the parallels between TSB and hermetic tradition. Don't forget to cite the sources, I mean the primary texts. I'm genuinely curious.


LaVe was primary influenced by the occultist Aleister Crowley... 

I asked you a specific question. 

You repeat ad nauseam that I haven't read TSB. Now you have an opportunity to prove yourself more knowledgeable than me.

One by one, please point the parallels between TSB and hermeticism citing the original hermetic sources.

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 10 '21
Quote from Anna 

I asked you a specific question. 

You repeat ad nauseam that I haven't read TSB. Now you have an opportunity to prove yourself more knowledgeable than me.

One by one, please point the parallels between TSB and hermeticism citing the original hermetic sources.


Read TSB and Crowley's writings such as Magick In Theory and Practice.
Anna
Anna Jul 10 '21

Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Anna 

I asked you a specific question. 

You repeat ad nauseam that I haven't read TSB. Now you have an opportunity to prove yourself more knowledgeable than me.

One by one, please point the parallels between TSB and hermeticism citing the original hermetic sources.


Read TSB and Crowley's writings such as Magick In Theory and Practice.

Stop being a lazy ass and answer the fucking question.

By primary text I meant Corpus Hermeticum.

You mentioned Crowley. OK. A couple of quotes from Crowley:

The Great Work is the uniting of opposites. It may mean the uniting of the soul with God, of the microcosm with the macrocosm, of the female with the male, of the ego with the non-ego."[5]

In my third year at Cambridge, I devoted myself consciously to the Great Work, understanding thereby the Work of becoming a Spiritual Being, free from the constraints, accidents, and deceptions of material existence

I insist that in private life men should not admit their passions to be an end, indulging them and so degrading themselves to the level of the other animals, or suppressing them and creating neuroses. I insist that every thought, word and deed should be consciously devoted to the service of the Great Work. 'Whatsoever ye do, whether ye eat or drink, do all to the glory of God'.[7]


I will repeat the question. Show me parallels between Satanism and hermeticism citing primary sources. You can rant about hermetic principles, Great Work or whatever.


I'm not attacking you now. Most people here, like me, are clueless about the connection between Satanism and hermeticism. So go on.

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 10 '21

Quote from Anna 

Stop being a lazy ass and answer the fucking question.


I won't until you have read TSB... It's my ultimatum to you. 
Anna
Anna Jul 10 '21

Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Anna 

Stop being a lazy ass and answer the fucking question.


I won't until you have read TSB... It's my ultimatum to you. 

Oh please. Look I'm trying. Haven't read Corpus Hermeticum but I found some quotes from the great Hermes Trismegistus which could be relevant to Satanism. Let's start with the famous:

As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul…


Other ones:


If then you do not make yourself equal to God, you cannot apprehend God; for like is known by like.

Leap clear of all that is corporeal, and make yourself grown to a like expanse with that greatness which is beyond all measure; rise above all time and become eternal; then you will apprehend God. Think that for you too nothing is impossible; deem that you too are immortal, and that you are able to grasp all things in your thought, to know every craft and science; find your home in the haunts of every living creature; make yourself higher than all heights and lower than all depths; bring together in yourself all opposites of quality, heat and cold, dryness and fluidity; think that you are everywhere at once, on land, at sea, in heaven; think that you are not yet begotten, that you are in the womb, that you are young, that you are old, that you have died, that you are in the world beyond the grave; grasp in your thought all of this at once, all times and places, all substances and qualities and magnitudes together; then you can apprehend God.


But if you shut up your soul in your body, and abase yourself, and say “I know nothing, I can do nothing; I am afraid of earth and sea, I cannot mount to heaven; I know not what I was, nor what I shall be,” then what have you to do with God?



The punishment of desire is the agony of unfulfillment



That which is below is like that which is above, and that which is above is like that which is below, to perform the miracles of one only thing.



ye people, earth-born folk, ye who have given yourselves to drunkenness and sleep and ignorance of God, be sober now,cease from your surfeit, cease to be glamored by irrational sleep!



My discourse leads to the truth; the mind is great and guided by this teaching is able to arrive at some understanding. When the mind has understood all things and found them to be in harmony with what has been expounded by the teachings, it is faithful and comes to rest in that beautiful faith.



No eyes will raise to heaven. The pure will be thought insane and the impure will be honoured as wise. The madman will be believed brave, and the wicked esteemed as good.



Humanity looked in awe upon the beauty and the everlasting duration of creation. The exquisite sky flooded with sunlight. The majesty of the dark night lit by celestial torches as the holy planetary powers trace their paths in the heavens in fixed and steady metre - ordering the growth of things with their secret infusions.

Philosophy is nothing else than striving through constant contemplation and saintly piety to attain knowledge of God.
This is what you must know: that in you which sees and hears is the word of the lord, but your mind is god the father; they are not divided from one another for their union is life.

Things upon Earth, do not advantage those in Heaven; but all things in Heaven do profit and advantage all things upon Earth.

What is God? The immutable or unalterable good.
81. What is man? An unchangeable evil.

Know, O man, that Light is thine heritage. Know that darkness is only a veil. Sealed in thine heart is brightness eternal, waiting the moment of freedom to conquer, waiting to rend the veil of the night.

Some I found who had conquered the ether. Free of space were they while yet they were men. Using the force that is the foundation of ALL things, far in space constructed they a planet, drawn by the force that flows through the ALL; condensing, coalescing the ether into forms, that grew as they willed. Outstripping in science, they, all of the races, mighty in wisdom, sons of the stars.

Such a person does not cease longing after insatiable appetites, struggling in the darkness without satisfaction. This tortures him and makes the fire grow upon him all the more.

The Forum post is edited by Anna Jul 10 '21
Aborior Translatione
Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Anna 

Stop being a lazy ass and answer the fucking question.


I won't until you have read TSB... It's my ultimatum to you. 
F! You get an "F" for FUCKING Copout.


I am also interested. Hermeticism (and its spinoffs) to me means a bunch of robed faggots reading tarot cards, trees of life, and thinking they have an advantage because they are robed faggots with trees of life.  


That's about all I know about The Hermeticism. 


To me there's kinda a flow chart through Crowley. 


He was in The Golden Dawn and ripped that off to create A:.A:. Then he sat in a ziggaraut and asked his hand if it 'salright. Then he turned himself into the beast and got kicked out of Italy. 


Though I think his modern legacy is focused around the 101 Freeway, and not for the Armenians. There is now equal draw to "crossing the abyss" and "going clear", especially among the rappers. 


I really don't have all the knowledge. So if I told you Anna has read the TSB numerous times would you help enlighten me on the parallels between Hermeticism and Satanism?


How are the robed faggots of Hermeticism like or different from the robed faggots of pop culture ritual Satanism? 



The Forum post is edited by Aborior Translatione Jul 10 '21
Anna
Anna Jul 10 '21
He won't enlighten us because he's clueless. Suffice to say that Crowley's "Magic in theory and practice" is for him a primary hermetic text. 


Meanwhile, while the parallels with gnostic Christianity are easy to find, the concept of the soul trapped in the mortal body and the need for the liberation through gnosis and silencing the senses is at odds with Satanism. LaVey elevates the carnal at the cost of the spiritual. The Great Work, the union of the opposites also seems to be at odds with Satanism. Because LaVey's Satanism is rather one-sided; the carnal, material, animalistic, dark, Machiavellian even.


But I'm not going to bet all my money on this. He's encouraged to prove me wrong.

The Forum post is edited by Anna Jul 10 '21
MatthewJ1
MatthewJ1 Jul 10 '21

Oh boy, okay, I might make one more post here. I think Tom has read what I had to say about Hermetic correspondence in an earlier post and made some claims, which just won’t stand up to critical scrutiny.

 

I’ll try and clarify my position because I think Anna and others might be interested.

 

Just to start out. I don’t think Anton LaVey ever mentioned Hermeticism or the Hermetic texts in his work. LaVey wasn’t a great fan of Crowley or any of the other famous occultists/magicians, such as Levi or the Golden Dawn, etc. They were just writers of sanctimonious, guilt-ridden gibberish. TSB was designed to be simple and useful and not written in esoteric code.

 

Anna has provided some quotes from the so-called Philosophical Hermetica, which includes the Corpus Hermeticum and The Ascelpius and a few others. These books are just right hand path. There’s no way around that – they are essentially right hand path works. I don’t think LaVey would have anything to do with this sort of stuff and I don’t think any sincere Satanist would either.

 

The Hermetic text I am interested in forms a part of the so called Technical Hermetica. The text I am thinking of here is called The Emerald Tablet of Hermes. I have added a link for those who are interested.

 

http://www.alchemymuseum.info/library/Emerald_Tablet_Translations-Hauck.pdf

 

There is also an interesting recent YT clip by Dr. Justin Sledge, an esoteric scholar, who has produced a clip about the difficulty of translation and knowing what the tablet is actually about.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qa4woIz_Ag

 

This Emerald Tablet text is regarded as one of the cornerstone documents of western alchemy.

 

The part of the Tablet I’m referencing is this: ‘2. That which is below is like that which is on high, and that which is on high is like that which is below; by these things are made the miracles of one thing.’

 

There are a number of different translations of this part of the tablet, but the above is a fairly good one and they all tend to be similar I think.

 

The notion of a correspondence between ontological Being or rather Becoming on the one hand, as the macrocosm (above) and a human being on the other hand, as a microcosm (below) is pretty well established in western esotericism. We are a reflection of a much larger Being or rather Becoming.

 

I think scholar Antoine Faivre’s basic definitions/principles of the Western esoteric tradition still stands up to some extent, though contemporary esoteric scholarship has sort of moved on from Faivre’s definitions/principles.

 

For ease of access and because I can’t be bothered typing it out from Faivre’s book, here is a link to an interesting piece of writing, which unpacks the definitions or principles which Faivre has documented. The comments around correspondence are on page 11 at the top.

 

 https://www.sunypress.edu/pdf/61439.pdf

 

Okay, this is how I use this Hermetic notion of correspondence in regards to my interpretation of Satan and Satanism. I think will to power, anchored to an unconscious subject, as the Other of scientific and right hand path religious claims is the “instinctual energy” running through becoming. This is my macro viewpoint.

 

I think that the unconscious or ID is the instinctual energy running through a human being. This is my micro viewpoint. I don’t draw any distinction between body and psyche or mind – they are really inseparable for me.

 

To live as a Satanist – to grow and to win, to overcome limitations and boundaries, to magnify and to spread one’s will through as much of reality as possible, to form and reform appearances, to transgress and destroy and rebuild, is really a reflection at the level of an individual’s life, of a much larger and profound process taking place across the whole of becoming.     

 

I hope some of this gibberish makes sense – it can be very difficult to put down in clear words.  

Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 10 '21
Quote from Aborior Translatione

I really don't have all the knowledge. So if I told you Anna has read the TSB numerous times would you help enlighten me on the parallels between Hermeticism and Satanism?


LaVey was an occultist and studied Crowley's writings. It's from there he draw influence to satanic ritual and ceremony. LaVey modified the magical arts to deal with carnal and earthly aspects of life, and in TSB he argues that the satanic magician should always go in alliance with the devils and demons (He use the term "Powers of Darkness") to get the best results. What really happens in the intellectual decompression chamber is unknown. Maybe the devils and demons are actual spirits or they are just archetypes of the collective unconsciousness. Personally, I don't care because in the end it does not matter. It's what the bring to tablet of the ritual or ceremony that matters.
The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 10 '21
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment Jul 10 '21

Quote from Anna He won't enlighten us because he's clueless. Suffice to say that Crowley's "Magic in theory and practice" is for him a primary hermetic text. 


Meanwhile, while the parallels with gnostic Christianity are easy to find, the concept of the soul trapped in the mortal body and the need for the liberation through gnosis and silencing the senses is at odds with Satanism. LaVey elevates the carnal at the cost of the spiritual. The Great Work, the union of the opposites also seems to be at odds with Satanism. Because LaVey's Satanism is rather one-sided; the carnal, material, animalistic, dark, Machiavellian even.


But I'm not going to bet all my money on this. He's encouraged to prove me wrong.

Exactly. I never understood the hand in hand walking of Gnosticism and Satanism.  I mean 'cause nothing says autodeification like coming into a perfect divine form.  I believe it says 777 not 666, but whatever. 


Even though 666 is atomically encoded into our carbon-based selves. 


As it turns out, it really is an episode of the twilight zone and the most evil creation is the invasive carbon-based organism.


You can also slap an alien soul onto that and charge people to learn to beat a lie detector. 


The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 10 '21
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment Jul 10 '21

Quote from Tom Riddle
Quote from Aborior Translatione

I really don't have all the knowledge. So if I told you Anna has read the TSB numerous times would you help enlighten me on the parallels between Hermeticism and Satanism?


LaVey was an occultist and studied Crowley's writings. It's from there he draw influence to satanic ritual and ceremony. LaVey modified the magical arts to deal with carnal and earthly aspects of life, and in TSB he argues that the satanic magician should always go in alliance with the devils and demons (He use the term "Powers of Darkness") to get the best results. What really happens in the intellectual decompression chamber is unknown. Maybe the devils and demons are actual spirits or they are just archetypes of the collective unconsciousness. Personally, I don't care because in the end it does not matter. It's what the bring to tablet of the ritual or ceremony that matters.

Anna
Anna Jul 11 '21
@Matthew, it does make sense. Thank you for explanation and links.
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 11 '21
Quote from MatthewJ1

There’s no way around that – they are essentially right hand path works. I don’t think LaVey would have anything to do with this sort of stuff and I don’t think any sincere Satanist would either.


Satanists acknowledges that both truth and fantasy is a need for the human animal. Magick is based on the human desire to control situations according to the will which with normal method would be impossible to do. It's not about whatever the evoked demon is an actual spirit or not. It's the results and the experience that matters. When magicians talks about they have seen the summoned demon in the smoke of incense for instance it must have been a frighten experience but what does not kills you makes you stronger which makes it an essential psychodrama. Just because Satanism is a carnal religion does not necessary mean that spirituality is excluded. The inverted pentagram represents the spirit bound to serve matter so to speak. In the case of Satanism the spirit serves pragmatically the carnal and earthly ideals.
The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 11 '21
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment Jul 11 '21
The inverted pentagram represents the spirit bound to serve matter so to speak.


You don't know shit about shit, Frater. You watch like one thing and think you know. There's no spirit, there's no spirit in Satanism... It's in an anticosmic league of its own. 


Gnostocism is different: 


If you wanna look smarter try Wikipedia for that one thing.


ירשלם 


Before there was even a Jesus to behold there was the seal of the city of Jerusalem. 




In the Hellenistic period, the pentagram was adopted for this purpose. In ancient vowel-less Hebrew, Jerusalem is spelled with five consonants: ירשלם; YRŠLM. When the pentagram was adopted as a fiscal stamp on the handle of pottery vessels in Judea...


And of you're going to cite Hermeticism, you could at least go with the quote of the guy who beget the modern Baphomet.


Éliphas Lévi claimed that "The Pentagram expresses the mind's domination over the elements and it is by this sign that we bind the demons of the air, the spirits of fire, the spectres of water, and the ghosts of earth."


Come to think of it, you may have read this bit on romanticism. And 19th century western mysticism. 


By the mid-19th century, a further distinction had developed amongst occultists regarding the pentagram's orientation. With a single point upwards it depicted spirit presiding over the four elements of matter, and was essentially "good". However, the influential writer Éliphas Lévi called it evil whenever the symbol appeared the other way up

"A reversed pentagram, with two points projecting upwards, is a symbol of evil and attracts sinister forces because it overturns the proper order of things and demonstrates the triumph of matter over spirit. It is the goat of lust attacking the heavens with its horns, a sign execrated by initiates."


You botch everything, dude. 

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 11 '21
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 11 '21
Quote from Dark Enlightenment"A reversed pentagram, with two points projecting upwards, is a symbol of evil and attracts sinister forces because it overturns the proper order of things and demonstrates the triumph of matter over spirit. It is the goat of lust attacking the heavens with its horns, a sign execrated by initiates."

Which is associated with binding the spirit to your will. Try again...
Dark Enlightenment
Dark Enlightenment Jul 11 '21
Only to you And Gnostic Christians everywhere, with your "spirit".


And do you really believe those statements are compatible? 


I mean it uses some same words, but for fun explain how the spirit binds to the will in the pentagram symbolism?


I will give you a hint:  THERE'S NO SPIRIT IN THE TRIUMPH OF THE WILL OVER THE MATERIAL. BECAUSE GOTTA OVERTURN THAT "SPIRIT OF THE SOUL"  PREMISE AS WELL. 

The Forum post is edited by Dark Enlightenment Jul 11 '21
Tom Riddle
Tom Riddle Jul 11 '21
Quote from Dark Enlightenment, there's no spirit in Satanism... 

I will also comment on that one... LaVey's statement that there is only the carnal is a claim from him that has nothing to do with Satanism just like LaVey being anti-abort has nothing to do with Satanism either. When Satanism is defined as a carnal religion it means that carnal pleasures is the primary interest of the Satanist, not a belief in only matter... 
The Forum post is edited by Tom Riddle Jul 11 '21
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